1911 Torpedo long hood --- how did they do it?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: 1911 Torpedo long hood --- how did they do it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Dwyer on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 03:48 pm:

I have a 1912 Runabout and sometimes I think it would look more pleasing if it had the longer hood that a 1911 Torpedo has. Not that I would do it, but musing about this makes me wonder how the extra 2 inches of hood length is accommodated?

The radiator does not overhang the frame out front, does it? Is the engine in the same location on the chassis as the other production cars? If so, how can you move the firewall back and still keep access to the pedals? If I move my floorboards back the equivalent of two inches, I can't work the pedals.

I know the bodies are entirely different, but the placement of the firewall and floorboards is what really must take up the space. Just curious if someone knows how they did this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 04:31 pm:

I believe you'll find that the firewall is further back, hence the shallower and longer steering column.

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nicholas Lingg - Tarboro, NC on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 04:48 pm:

The seat is moved back for extra leg room


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks_-_Surf_City on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 05:33 pm:

And I'll add that the pedals are more upright to clear the more aft firewall, and to be more comfortable to push from the low seating position. At least that's what I did with the pedals on our Speedster, even after the prior owner had shortened the hood..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 06:29 pm:

Scott-
The Torpedeo was quite a unique car and differs from the other models with lots of unique parts. The firewall is set back on the chassis by using unique dash to chassis brackets. The mounting holes still remain in the same place on the chassis but the vertical section comes up at the rear of the bracket instead of in the centre giving the extrea length. The steering column is longer and has different angles at the dash mount and also has a different chassis steering bracket to accommadate the different angle. Someone else may jump in here but I also thought that the foot pedals were different on Torpedo. I remember having to bend mine to clear the torpero body floorboards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker -- NW Ark. on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 07:05 pm:

When I built the "Marriage Carriage", I had Rootlieb make a special hood which is like a '15 hood, but 12" longer.

m.c.

The owners wanted the long, low look, and that's what they got. It cost an extra $250 to have it made, but I know it must have been a lot of extra work for them to make one like that. It fit perfectly, by the way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 07:15 pm:

Don't forget about the rear running board brackets! But that would not be an issue for just changing the dash, hood, and column for a sleeker look on a standard roadster.
It is a wonder that Ford built such a different car for two years. And no wonder they stopped before implementing the assembly line. At least in '10 and '11 the low production parts were simply made by different work benches.
If I could have any T I wanted, but only one. It would be a '10 or '11 Torpedo roadster. Correct car of course.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 08:45 pm:

A quick look at Bruce’s “Price List of Parts” in his “Model T Comprehensive Encyclopedia” shows the pedals were different 1909-1910 for the square hole transmission covers and then remained the same (with the exception of letters, ribbed, then plain). I did NOT see any indication that the 1911 style Torpedo Runabout or Open Runabout had a different pedal arrangement than the stock Fords. It appears they used the same engine & transmission set up.

If you look at Trent’s web site at: http://oz.plymouth.edu/~trentb/ModelT/Torpedo2/TorJune16Y2K.html and scroll down you will see his friend’s original 1911 Torpedo runabout. Note the early owner’s solution to the pedals being further away. Of course with many of today’s individuals being taller and larger than the average male from 1911 – the car has a little more room than some of the other versions and might be more comfortable for a taller person.



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 09:09 pm:

Hap,
The pedals are indeed unique as identified in Ford blueprints. They are bent back toward the rear of the car. The floorboards sit at a different angle due to the fact that the firewall sits two inches further to the rear of the car requiring the different angle. The 1911 open runabout and the 1911 Torpedo runabout share many chassis parts and some firewall hardware. I don't believe these runabouts were offered as a 1910 model, though. Hope this helps.

Russ Furstnow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 12:05 am:

On Torpedoes and Open Runbabouts for 1911 only the clutch and brake pedal are bent differently using the otherwise same pedal forging as the standard '11. Not just any lettered pedal forging can be made to work when bent. The factory drawing for the pedal bending clearly talks about the correct forging to use. The reverse pedal was standard unmodified 1911 lettered pedal. Brake lever is also bent back and up. Brake lever assembly has a unique actuator rod to accommodate the bend. Rear running board bracket moved forward on the frame. No dash shield or guide was necessary or used since the first floor board covered the dash "doghouse" motor clearance opening. The dash was unique but also not symmetrical with it being wider on one side than the other. Dash was mounted exactly 2" rearward by special dash-to-frame brackets that mounted in the standard hole location as other dash-to-frame brackets for 1911. Windshield had a special brass water deflection strip that was riveted to both upper and lower halves of the center windshield channel. The Dash lamp brackets were different - polished brass finish on early cars and painted black on later cars. Some body detail moldings different between early and late body versions. 1910 Torpedoes are fictional in nature. Earliest bodies had square gas tanks and and there is evidence that those bodies were made of wood. Early Torpedoes had 3 windshield clips with the outer clips being modified Touring car clips and the center clip being special. Later unique windshield clips were created for the torpedo and then only 2 outer clips were used again as with other cars. 3 clips were used for only a few of the early months as a stop gap method of keeping the windshield on since without the special center clip the windshield would hop up and off the spacer board when the car hit a bump. This only happened on the cars equipped with the modified touring car outer windshield clips.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 04:15 am:

Thanks for all the extra detail John. The windscrren clips are an often overlooked detail. I fitted standard reproduction 1911-12 style windscreen clips to my Torpedo when I built it. It resulted in the windsreen coming out of the clips and hitting the steering column, and cracking the glass. I later added extra bits to them not realising that was a factory part.
I miss my Torpedo but my wife and kids enjoy the sedan more!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 07:10 am:

Russ and John,

Thank you both for the additional correction on the brake and clutch pedals being bent differently from the standard pedal and also that they may be a different forging. No rush, but when either one of you have time, would you please send me or post some additional information about the pedals? I would like to work with Bruce to update his CD to include that this small number of pedals were different [Bruce may already have that in his Price List of Parts and I may have missed it.] Do you know if it had its own factory number/drawing or if the standard factory drawing had additional notes for the Torpedo clutch and brake pedals. And was the difference noted only on the “change card” or both? I’ll also try to look at some 1911-1912 parts books to see if they list a different pedal for the Torpedo. They may have stocked the part without listing it in the catalog.

And I think there is a good chance that Floyd Clymer’s “Henry’s Wonderful Model T” has helped to continue the incorrect idea that there was a 1910 model year Torpedo. The several photos of Walter Matter’s Torpedo with large letters on the side saying 1910 and the comment under the factory illustration that they were offered 1910-1911 (page 52-53) were used by many folks to date their cars in the mid 1950s and 1960s. [still a great read – just there have been many corrections discovered at the archives etc. since it was published. ]

Again thank you both for the correction.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 07:41 am:

Wayne,
What was the difference in the rear running board brackets? I thought they were just further forward. Is there a difference in them too?
Verne


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 11:47 am:

Verne I think it is the same brackets, just that they are closer together. Something like 17 inches total distance to fit the shorter runningboard brackets.

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 03:47 pm:

Same braces, just farther forward. But what I don't know, and would like to, is in 1911 and 1912, did they pre-drill the frames then re-drill for the forward position? Did they have a jig to drill the holes at the assembly site? Did some of the Torpedo roadsters have the extra set of holes in their frame? All of them? I may never own one, but as my favorite factory body, I like to know what I am looking at.

I love the several Floyd Clymer books that I have. They are some of the best books on antique automobiles ever to just look through. But he did write them mostly from memory along with the huge amount of photos and ads that he had collected. There are a lot of errors in them. There were two prototype Krotz/Sears Autobuggies built in 1907. Actual production did not begin until late 1908 (like the T) and were considered 1909 models. After more than 40 years of the Horseless Carriage crowd trying to correct that error, there are still about a dozen Sears automobiles claimed to be 1907 (based on someone claiming that years ago due to Floyd's book) and I think at least three people claiming they have one of the two prototypes (Two of them listed in the HCCA roster, but one is hard to find).
In spite of the errors in information, we all owe a debt of thanks to Mr. Floyd Clymer, a true automotive pioneer and antique automotive pioneer.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 07:01 pm:

Thanks Herb! I have lusted over the 1911 Torpedo since I became a T guy but it was always just a little out of my reach. I've been trying to "assemble" one from parts and have made a fairly good stab at it so far. I've got enough other cars to keep me occupied while I look. At Hershey this year I was able to find a "hogs head" and a 2-piece driveshaft housing. The later part completes the rear axle. One of these days I'm going to have to quit collecting and start assembling!

Wayne, when I was a youngster, the Clymer books were about all there was for reference. He was the Bruce M. of the day! Only thing is that Bruce has taken it to a much higher level of knowledge. There are others who also fit in this catagory, several have posted here. The sharing of knowledge by these folks is much appreciated!!!

I like looking through Google Books. I've been doing a lot of research on the 1915-16 Oakland to determine when the car we have was produced. Google Books has been a big help for that. I would like to take some vacation time to visit some of the libraries in Michigan to see if there is anything available in the car's birthplace. My wife says she can't wait and starts talking about some attractions of interest to her. Our marriage has always been based on give and take. I don't know if I can stand spending the same amount of time at her "places of interest"!


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