Help needed to take the right way
I’m in trouble to mount speedometer gear to my 21” wood wheels.
My Stewart gear have 6 holes , 3 placed on the external diameter and 3 closer to the internal diameter.

External are to mount it to the wood using wood screws and spacer, but to avoid “disturbing” the wood of these spokes, my question is:
Are the other three holes there to mount it to the hub?
Can I mount it to the hub using the other three holes , drilling a tapping a hole directly on the hub?
Somebody already did it?
Thank You very much

Carlos

Carlos,
The gear you have is made for wood wheels, and you will need to drill three holes into your spokes to mount the gear. You need to insure the gear is centered, so take your time. You also need three 3/4" spacers to set the gear away from the wheel, and finally you need three round head wood screws. I might add, that the gear you have was used for 30X3 1/2" wheels, not 21" wheels. The gear for 21" wheesl has 58 teeth and is part number 30333. I hope this helps,

Russ Furstnow

To add to what Russ says, Stewart made a locating tool, which is very accurate for locating the holes. There are a few of them around in collections, and sure makes the job easier.

Charles Schiaverano:

Its very important what the guys say above about centering the gear. You will ruin your driven gear on the end of the cable quickly if it is not centered. I will try and send you a picture of the centering tool that Larry Smith mentions.

The firt picture is the top of the Stewart Centering Tool



The second picture is the bottom of the centering tool. you tap on the upper end of the sharp points leaving a dent in three of the spokes. The round thing in the cneter is placed inside the large bearing in your wheel against the race.



This picture is the spacers most of the spacers I take off of wheels are bevelled but not all. I guess the bevel is so the spacer can not turn. The spacer on the bottom is one I made. They are 3/4" long.

NOTE !!!! I find that I have to check my screws at least once a year or better. If even one screw come loose the others two will soon follow and when the gear comes lose they will chew up the spoke. This will not effect the strength of the spoke but it sure looks like hell. I had this happen on two different Ts because I didn't check them.

Charles Schiaverano:

Its very important what the guys say above about centering the gear. You will ruin your driven gear on the end of the cable quickly if it is not centered. I will try and send you a picture of the centering tool that Larry Smith mentions.

The firt picture is the top of the Stewart Centering Tool



The second picture is the bottom of the centering tool. you tap on the upper end of the sharp points leaving a dent in three of the spokes. The round thing in the cneter is placed inside the large bearing in your wheel against the race.



This picture is the spacers most of the spacers I take off of wheels are bevelled but not all. I guess the bevel is so the spacer can not turn. The spacer on the bottom is one I made. They are 3/4" long.

NOTE !!!! I find that I have to check my screws at least once a year or better. If even one screw come loose the others two will soon follow and when the gear comes lose they will chew up the spoke. This will not effect the strength of the spoke but it sure looks like hell. I had this happen on two different Ts because I didn't check them.

I will try to load the picture of the spacers again.

Carlos,

To answer the question you asked, yes you can drill and tap holes in the hub but it's a lot more difficult that the wood screw-in-the-spoke method and really not any better.

Is the center of that gear machined to fit the machined hubs? I have a few of those around. I suppose I could look in "The Bible" for an answer to this question, but this is much easier!

T'
David D.

I believe those spacers with the taper might be for the Ford Special set up. With the small diameter gear (35 tooth), it mounts rather tightly to the Ford front hub thus the taper goes up next to the hub. Russ might be able to elaborate further.

1912 Stewart


1913 Stewart


1915 Ford Special on machined hub

Royce,
GREAT photos. So that's what the "Ford Special" set up looks like. The pictures of parts never showed me as much as your single photo. Maybe I wasn't paying attention to that part of the lecture!
Thanks!
T'
David

Just curious Royce. Was there a 4 screw mounting that was correct for the 1912 speedo gear? The Stewart #1322 gear casting has both the 3 or 4 screw mounting holes, but looks like the early gears may have been drilled for 4 hole where presumeably later are drilled for 3 hole mounting?
Regards,
Scott

The 1913 wheel gear uses 4 round head slotted wood screws. I'm not sure the size though at least a 10, maybe a 12. Also, I've not seen the speedometer cable end pictured on the '15 Ford Special before. Must be a custom unit. Most Ford Specials have an eight sided nut, some are brass, and most are steel.

I installed an orriginal Stewart 58 tooth drive sprocket on my 26 T which has 21" wood spoke wheels. I made a wooden spacer on my lathe to center the drive sprocket on the wheel. I placed the sprocket on the wheel with the brass 3/4" spacers between it and the spokes, just like it would be mounted on the wheel. I measured the hub diameter at the top and bottom of the width of the sprocket because the hub sides are a slight taper. I made the wooden spacer inside diameter just under the largest measurement. I turned the outside of the wood spacer to fit inside the center of the sprocket. I test fitted the wood spacer to the wheel hub so it was a snug, slip on fit with out the sprocket and then with the sprocket. I installed the sprocket on the hub with the wood spacer with the 3/4" brass spacers in their proper place and centered the brass spacers on the spokes by eye. I put the mounting screws in the holes and then marked the spokes by lightly tapping on the screws to make the marks in the wood of the spokes. I then drilled pilot holes for the screws using a cordless drill with spirit levels mounted on it(came that way from the store). I mounted the sprocket and the rest of the drive assembly. I've got 500 miles on it so far and all is well.

Russ, please chime in on this...

Are do some of the speedometers, the Ford Special in particular, require a specific type of right front wheel hub to accept the larger gear?

Pardon my incorrect English...It posted before I finished editing.

To restate my question, did some of the speedometers, the Ford Special in particular, require that the right front wheel hub be a hub machined specifically for holding the wheel mounted gear?

Please advise.

Thank you.

Bill Everett

Russ is the expert on speedo items but I have examples of both, early & late style front hubs machined to accept gears. I don't believe the Ford Special was the only speedometer set up that utilized the machined hub. Obviousily, it made centering the gear a simple chore !

All of the 1913 - 15 hubs are machined to accept any of the available speedometer setups. The Ford Special setups were made by AC, Johns Manville, Sears Cross, Standard Thermometer, Stewart and Jones.

You can mix and match some of the parts from one maker to the others. My cable is from a later AC unit (I think) but had the proper length and ends for what I needed.

My goal was to have a period correct functional speedometer on each of my T's, not necessarily concours correct but close enough for my tastes. I collected speedometers, cables and drives on ebay until I had enough for all my cars. They have all served me for many thousands of miles.

Bill send me an email off line. I have a lot of extra speedometer stuff and need Christmas money.

Steve, if you get a minute, could you take a couple of pictures of the hubs you have?

If you could text them to my cell, 901-496-8795, or e-mail me at picketteqt@gmail.com, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you, Steve.

Bill Everett

Royce, it's on the way.

Will do, tomorrow morning.

Bill, The Ford machined hub was used from 1914-1917. The early hubs had the long threads for the hub cap, while later hubs has the shorter threads. The machined hub was produced so the Ford Special gear (35T8P) could easily fit over the hub and be perfectly centered. Around 1917, Stewart Warner offered the Ford "spoked" gear (pn: 8685 and 60T8P) which was machined to be used with the Ford machined hub. The 8685 gear is wonderful because it centers the gear perfectly on the hub, and it is mounted by using the three screw holes in the hub, so no drilling into the spokes is required.

Also, Royce's statement that AC made a Ford special is incorrect. People have adapted AC cables to their Ford Special setups because the Ford Specaial cables are so rare, but the AC speedometer was not even offered until 1920.

I'm happy to help with these questions, and will chime in if there are any more. PS: I've tried posting photos, but I can't get them to load.

Russ Furstnow

I made a wood jig like Chester did for a 1912 REO recently. The only difference was that I didn't go to the outside of the hub. I made it to fit the bearing in the center so I knew it was centered on the axle. The other thing to assume is that the inside of the gear is concentric with the outside, which it was on the REO gear. Using a wood jig like that, the screws could be installed while the jig was in place to make sure it didn't shift as it was attached.

Thank You all , very clear explanation and helpfull pictures, Chester, this is exactly what I need to do.

Verne, to be sure I understood this is what You have done?

Carlos, I see you are from Italy.
We had a T owning lady from Italy posting here a few years ago, Andrea Davide. She had problems to even register her car, since some law required four wheel brakes evon on cars that never had any??

Did things change lately, or have you found a loop hole? (Standard cars legal in other EU countries should be legal to operate in Italy too..? Weren't T's sold in Italy back in the teens & twenties?)