This is a long one, so bear with me....

As some of you know, I am putting together a 1923 project. I am getting to to point where I can fire it up once in a while so it doesn't sit too long. No where near driveable yet, but it makes me happy hearing it run.

I have new electrical, except for the timer. I already had one, but it was pretty crusty, so I chucked it in a bottle of evapo rust over night and it came out clean. It is an original ford timer. The roller looks ok, but the spring was broke, so I fabbed up a new one out of a spring that I had. I installed the timer and tried to run it - it seems like it is running on 3 cylinders/has a bad miss. I originally thought it was a fuel problem, so i took the carb off cleaned and insepected it and put it back on. Same thing.

I have a new timer on the way, but I honestly thought that the older one I put on would be ok. Can the timer actually cause it to run that badly?

Here is some history:

I bought the engine off of a gentleman who had a new ring gear installed by a reputable engine builder. Bearings were checked and new valves installed.I was told that it was ready to drop in and go, and I have absolutely no reason to doubt this.

I brought it home, painted it up and put it in the chassis and installed new wiring, coils, etc.

I have checked and double checked the wiring....can't find any manifold leaks either.

Is there something else I can be checking while I am waiting for the new timer? I even pulled the roller off and checked to make sure it wasn't out 180 degrees, but the pin can only go in one way....

How about the coils?

Coils are brand new, and the coil box has been rebuilt.

Greg, Some dealers sell new coils unadjusted. They need to be checked to insure that they are adjusted properly

Glen, sorry, i kind of mispoke - the coils aren't quite brand new - I had them in our 27 for about two weeks before we sold it. It ran well with them in it.

Check compression first. Then run engine and see which cylinder is not contributing. Then the diagnosis can be concentrated on the fuel, spark and timing to that cylinder.

Hi Greg,
Check the bottom terminal on the timer( use a meter to see if you have a completed circuit between the roller contact & the case).Sometimes they will short out from pieces of worn metal particles that end up behind the insulating ring & the the case wall.Aiso check the ring that the roller rides on to make sure that it isn't worn to the point were the roller almost jumps over the contact on the ring.Did you put grease or some type of lube inside the timer case ?
Scott

Just wanted to add if your putting a new timer, is that including a new roller? Not to put you down on your skills, your ten times better than I am. Just by what you have said. When you fabbed the spring is it working correctly? Just an idea. Spring tension can be triky(sp).

Hi Scott!

How are things? I'll put a meter on it tomorrow morning and see what I can come up with. As far as grease - no - i guess that isn't helping much either. I will make sure to put some in.

Andrew - the spring that I fabbed up seems ok, but i ordered a new one because I don't know for sure what the spring tension should be. It holds the roller like the original, but after that it is anyones guess. I will be putting a new roller in with the new timer

Doug - I did the old "thumb" compression test and there is lots on all 4 - but I'll have to get my compression tester back (as soon as i remember who I lent it to lol), and get some actual numbers

I just got back in - i pulled the plugs and #1 was clean and soaked with fuel, the other 3 are fouled. So that is telling me that #1 is getting no spark......guess I know which contact on the timer I'll be checking first...

Thanks for the help guys, i'll keep you posted.

Greg

While you got the plug out on one, put it on the block and crank it over to check if you can see spark if not change the coil order, check again. An easy check while your waiting for parts.

Do a continuity test from all the timer terminals to ground to check for grounding.
I had a similar problem and despite cleaning the timer there was still a ground from the 4:00 O'clock terminal to ground which gave a weak spark on one coil every time every OTHER cylinder fired.
It turned out to be a TINY buildup of something around the timer case insulators.
Loosening ALL the studs and more cleaning cured the problem.

Check your coil box terminals and wires.

Are you sure the fuel mixture is right?i had the same problem when i fired my engine but 1/4 turn fuel rod fixed it. Then again you probably checked that already.

Scott, that lawn roller on your profile is WAY cool! Dave

Hi Dave,
The lawn roller was built from a kit in 1923.
Has anyone ever seen one ?
Hi Greg,
Things are going great.Need more T touring weather before it snows.
Scott

Greg, you pulled the plugs, did you put them back in the same holes as they came out? If you start changing things while troubleshooting, you will be chasing your tail. Put the plugs back in the same holes as they were and check which cylinder is not firing by grounding the each plug one at a time with a screwdriver and see which one/s has no change. Then report back.

Hi Doug,

I replaced the plugs in exactly the same holes they came out of - #1 is the only one that shows no change when I ground it with a screwdriver.

It came out clean and wet again, and the other 3 are fouled badly. i am going to re-trace all wires affiliated to #1 cylinder and see what i can find. I must have missed something somewhere....but the part that is puzzling me is the fact that if I lay all four plugs on the head with wires attached. they all spark as they should, and in proper order.

i am starting to believe that I have a fuel issue too (because of the fouling), but don't want to mess with that until I can get the electrical issue figured out...

it sounds like a vacuum leak to #1. Spray around the intake manifold while idling and see if there is a change.

If you have adjustable lifters it is possible that number 1 is not adjusted right and will either stay open, or closed as the engine turns. You can determing by using a compression gauge. Compression should be almost even for all 4 cylinders. The valve could be sticking open possibly due to a broken or weak spring or by too tight clearance between valve guide and valve stem. I would have suspected an ignition problem, but since #1 is firing, I now think it is a valve problem. A leaky intake manifold would affect both #1 and #2. Check the valves on #1.
Norm

Greg, first thing to do is completely replace the #1 plug. I started a newly re-built engine today that had a bad miss just like you describe. I shorted the plugs and found #4 not sparking so I just replaced it and the next plug cured the problem. Even brand new plugs can be bad.

I have done everything today to get this thing to go.

Re-checked all wires for continuity
Re-checked timer for connections/grounding/continuity
Swapped plugs around
Took the valve cover off and rotated engine - everything moved and looked good.
Took carb off and cleaned it - it wasn't dirty at all

As I was sitting there staring at it, I thought about what i had done to it since I purchased it - and I did in fact have the intake and exhaust off to paint them. I put the green 3 to 1 gasket (i think that is what it is called) on it when I put the manifold back on.

i pulled the intake back off and it looked like it had seated well by the impression that it made in the gasket, and the steel glands were intact. This time when I put it back on, I put some high temp permatex around the intake glands, on top of the green gasket and put the intake back on. i fired it up and what a difference! Still not perfect, but it runs A LOT better. Doug- i think you got it right - definately had/have a leak at the intake, but i honestly can't beleive that it would make it run that bad.

I think I will pitch the green gasket and put the glands/copper rings in it to see if it works better.

Thanks guys! Once again this forum has been an invaluable source of information.

Greg,

a very small intake leak makes a very big difference in performance.

If you question your 'seal', start the engine, let it smooth out at idle or faster, carb needle valve set sweet, then take a can of aeresol carb cleaner with the red straw and get right up against the seam close and give it a squirt. Engine speeds up? You still 'gottum' leak....but for heavens sake don't get carried away with the spray.

Use the hand crank and pull up one cylinder at a time and see if each has a buzzing coil and good compression. If all buzz, then get #1 buzzing and short #1 plug out with a screwdriver and see if you have fire. If #1 has no compression then you likely have a valve problem. You can squirt oil in the cylinder and repeat the test. If you get significant improvement then the rings are not seated.

If you don't then your problem could be the timer or a short or bad connection in the coil box.

If #1 doesn't buzz, then short the timer lead to ground and see if it does.

If you will go through things methodically and thoroughly, you should be able to find your problem and fix it.

Here's a quick update guys:

I got my new timer and copper rings/glands in today.

I cleaned up all the surfaces and installed the copper rings. Installed new timer.

Turned key on, turned gas on, choked it for a couple of cranks, then away she went. i adjusted the fuel mixture and she sat there purring away.

This just made my day!

Thanks for the help guys - it is greatly appreciated. Now to assemble the rear end and get this thing on it's wheels.......

YYYYYEEEEEAAAAAA!!!!!