A little Ford archaeology: Can you ID this frame?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: A little Ford archaeology: Can you ID this frame?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 12:56 pm:


After the war my aunt Jerry's husband Charles got out of the navy and they came back to the farm and decided to dairy. When I was a wee tyke they milked the cows in this shed. Charles died in 1960, the dairying ended, and about twenty years ago he shed finally collapsed.


Many years ago I noticed this old frame in the shed, but never pulled it out to have a look until this morning.


Daisy was so excited by this find that she insisted on posing with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 12:57 pm:


The long carriage bolts and the cut off running board bracket suggest to me that this was probably used as a farm wagon.

Here are some other views. From what the encyclopedia says, I'm thinking this is a 1925 frame. Am I thinking right?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 12:58 pm:


I'm thinking of using this frame when I build my model T trailer. After all, it already has a trailer hitch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 01:07 pm:

Looks just like my mid twenties farm wagon frame - except straighter. I could use the E brake quadrant if its for sale. :-)

J.O.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Harper . . Keene, NH on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 01:16 pm:

Yes Steve, 1925 frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 02:49 pm:


John, you don't want this quadrant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 02:53 pm:

Thanks for close up Steve - looks used up, doesn't it!

J.O.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lawrence J. Bohlen on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:03 pm:

Steve,

Here is the interesting part with the quadrant.
It's a 2 hole '26-'27 style on a '25 or earlier frame...notice the two inside holes? Those would be for the earler style 4 hole type.

I guess this brake quadrant was replaced with the latter style some time when the car was still on the road?

Other ideas?

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:39 pm:

The brake quadrant is likely original - from the encyclopedia: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/C-D.htm#Chassis1

"During 1925 the brake lever quadrant was modified. Instead of four rivets holding it to the frame, only two were now used."

So it may have been some time when both types were used, so the four holes in the frame stayed until all quadrants were of the two rivet style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:51 pm:

The encyclopedia says:

In 1925 the hand-brake quadrant was changed. The previous quadrants were held with four rivets while the new one was held with just two. The two-rivet type continued until the end of Model T production.

So the four holes indicate a frame before 1925. There are also holes for a battery carrier, best seen behind the running board bracket in the fourth picture, which means 1919 or later. So I guess the answer is 1919-1924. Or was this one of those "using up the old parts" deals a 1919-1924 frame used in an early 1925 car? The mystery continues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:53 pm:

Roger types faster than I do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lawrence J. Bohlen on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 04:22 pm:

Roger,

I think you are right. But I still can't believe Henry would have drilled those extra holes! They cost money. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - SE Georgia on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 04:28 pm:

All those holes were probably punched at the same time, so no real cost involved. They probably kept the four holes in the frame until they knew all the old quadrants were used up and only new ones in stock. Then it would be safe to remove the punches from the tooling. Just a guess, based on my manufacturing experiences.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker -- NW Ark. on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 07:19 pm:

According to Larry Smith's article on 25's in the May/June 2009 VF magazine, the "'26-7 style" two-hole quadrant was used beginning in the '25 model year, but the frames still had the 4 holes. As Had said, they were set up to punch them, so they just continued doing it the same way they had been until the frames needed other changes for the '26 models. Henry did save two rivets on each car, though! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lawrence J. Bohlen on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 08:25 pm:

Have me convinced.

Looks like a '25 frame for sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way . Wa. on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 11:23 pm:

Remember that others supplied the frames and there was allways a stock pile sitting there, Henry would use them all up before the new design ( two hole) would arrive. That time frame
may not be documented anywhere.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 01:10 pm:

It's an early '25 frame. They are not uncommon, but if I was to build a real early '25, perhaps made in '24, this is the frame I'd be looking for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, December 04, 2011 - 12:13 am:

Just a comment on extra holes. It seems that nearly half the frames I have owned had holes for both the earlier forged running board brackets and the later pressed steel brackets. Most of them had the earlier forged brackets originally even though they were drilled for the newer brackets also. I have had at least five like that. I think I still have one or two.
I would expect the same to happen for a little while with the brake quadrant also.
Thanks to all.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder on Sunday, December 04, 2011 - 08:06 pm:

Looked at mine this weekend - just the two holes for the quadrant, but no serial number. Has the identical rear crossmember as the photos Steve posted above. Must be a bit later. :-)

J.O.


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