Broken magnet screws: What if they are not removable?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Broken magnet screws: What if they are not removable?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 06:49 pm:

So like, i have a flywheel with a broken magnet screw but only half the magnet screw is broken off the head the rest is there keeping the magnets and keeper on. i really have no way of removing it, i know the rich people that rebuild engines for money would tell me to replace it somehow but can't figure out how to remove the old one. Do i have to smash the aluminium thing behind the magnets and grip the screw with pliers? (assuming that would work) and i only have 1 screw and it might be the slightly oversize ones for the modern ring gears.
i would like to leave it alone and hope it stays together but other hand i like my magnets on the flywheel and those new aircooled magnetos with all the holes in the top near the mag'post look like they drip alot of oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 06:58 pm:

Kep
You've already answered your own question.
Hope and live with the consequences.
Fix it correctly and stop worrying.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 07:01 pm:

Do you have the engine out? I don't think it could be replaced while in the car. I also believe that you should do it right. This is a part that gets a lot of centrifugal force while the engine is running, and if the keeper, or the magnet come off while driving, you could be in for a much more expensive fix than it would cost you in time and labor to pull the engine and flywheel and fix it right. You can do it yourself if you just follow the instructions in the books. You don't need a lot of expensive tools. Do it right.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 07:12 pm:

Kep, the screws become brittle with age and if one broke, the rest are probably on the way.
I have heard of removing the hogshead and replacing the screws, but I have not done the procedure myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - SE Georgia on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 07:52 pm:

I'd have to dig out some old text books to do it, but me or somebody else ought to calculate the centrifugal force on a magnet at say 1800 rpm. I did it once at a prior job for a blade on a fan we produced. The welders and therefore the production management staff wanted to not have to do so much welding. Once I calculated how many TONS, yes TONS, of force was on each of those blades, we left the design alone.

And before anybody says there's no such thing as centrifugal force.......Yeah, I know......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 09:53 pm:

But how do i get it out? i tried before but it is really stuck and ....ethically challenged people keep making my tools disappear so can it be done with simple hand tools?.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money, Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 09:54 pm:

Why do the magnets always come out the top of the motor instead out the oil pan when they let loose?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 10:06 pm:

If there's enough sticking out to get hold of it with visegrips, you may be able to turn it out. If not, I'd grind the end flat, punch the center, drill it with a smaller bit, and use a small easy out on it. If that fails, the next thing would be to drill it with a bit that just fits inside the threads, then retap it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:16 am:

Kep,

I had to remove two brass screws which were broken off flush with the flywheel, so there was nothing to grab. Instead, I ground the peened over end flush with the back of the fly wheel. Then, using a dremel tool with a cut-off wheel, I cut a screwdriver slot across the screw end. This meant allowing the tool to cut into the flywheel a well, but the resulting screwdriver slot allowed the pieces of the screw to be driven back out of the flywheel the same way they went in. Unless the threads are damaged, they are easily turned by a screwdriver small enough to chase them through the hole in the flywheel.

Hope this helps

Allan from over the dutch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 01:31 am:

Might try cleaning the flywheel and magnets so that you can mark them and their location. Then unbolt the magnets and useing a cold chisel that has been sharpened to one side, cut the peened butt off the screws so that they are flush with the flywheel. Remove all the screws you can with a screwdriver. The magnets that are left can be taped out from under the plates and then use vicegrips to remove the screws that are left. Turn them like you are cutting threads with a tap, back and forth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 02:05 pm:

About the magnets going out the top. If the car has a starter, the shaft will go through the hogs head. The magnets when they come loose, will protrude just enought that the first thing they hit will be the starter shaft and you will notice that the hogs heads which are damaged by the magnets coming off are usually broken next to the starter. When the magnet hits the starter, it is then ripped off and forced upward as the flywheel continues to turn until it stops completely.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money, Braidwood, IL on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 06:49 pm:

Thanks Norman, that explains it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 09:39 pm:

So i was able to look at it again today. Looks like somebody in the past replaced all but of the screws and aluminium things but could not get the one i am talking about undone, Breaking half of it off trying though. Now that i know it is not fatigue cracked off i am still not sure as to replace it. After all the last people could not do it but replacing it might be the right way... What do you think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 10:21 pm:

Never mind i got it out now.


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