I don't know enough about these cars but that is how the photos were titled.
Great pics! Wonder what trans is in there, sure looks like more than a T and those were usualy just in and out jobs. Very expensive wheels for the day and most likely one of those downdraft Winfields.
Looks like a Model A pan. I want one of those skinny radiators.
Model A pan and valve sidecover--I think this here's on 'o them new-fangled Fords.
A late Frontenac after 1927 for sure. I was corrected very carefully by the Santa Clara group. My book states that this is a 1924, so down draft is O.K. But my research was wrong, so says Santa Clara. Gary Bausch and I had a heated argument because I had a lot of data about down draft before 1928 but they hold strong. Gary was both very undersatanding and polite at all times and he and the entire group believe that any or all down draft carburetors came out after 1927 and not before even though I have proof of a 1918 down draft aircraft carburetor.
So that Frontenac engine depicted in the Frontenac car above and the picture of the engine as posted from the catalog picture I posted below labeled 1924 must actually be dated in 1929 or later even though the book says 1924. But even after that we know that testing on the track was done before they actually sold them.
I also believe there were downdrafts before 1927.
Frank : #1 - The above pictured car does not have a Fronty head on it , it`s a Model " A " engine . Fronty only made the " stagger valve " D.O. for the Model " A " engine , and that`s not one of them . #2 - The catalog pictures you keep inflecting us all with are clearly labeled " Arthur Chevrolet Aviation Motors Corporation " , and are numbered pages 108-109 . Please turn to page # 101 of YOUR COPY of the book that you scanned these 2 pages from . It`s called " Model T Ford in speed & Sport " . You will find a copy of the cover of the catalog these pages were originally a part of , the " Arthur Chevrolet Aviation Motors Corporation " catalog , dated CLEARLY on this page ( page # 101 ) May 15th. , 1929 . NOTICE , 1929 , NOT 1924 !!!!! The 1924 prototype version of the D.O. engine is the lower engine pictured on your posted scan of page #108 , and uses a WW1 surplus Zenith duplex O6D UPDRAFT carburetor off of a Curtiss OX5 " Jenny " aircraft V-8 engine . The downdraft Winfield " N " or " O " racing carburetor was introduced late in 1928 . Nice try .
"Speed and Sport" is a great reference for early T speedsters. But I have no idea how many people have brought up those pages in defense of their use of downdraft Winfields. About a half dozen have brought the book to me over the past 30 years, and I have counted the original page numbers (shown in the reprint) back to the title page where it shows the original date of 1929.
Yes, there were aviation carburetors that were downdraft. But there appears to be NO evidence that any of these were ever used on a model T. I have not confirmed that any other cars were using downdraft carburetors before June 1927, but would accept a maybe. Again, there is NO evidence that has yet been brought up that any were used on any T before 1928.
Unfortunately, the argument that "it could have been done" has been used way too much to justify some of the dumbest things I have ever seen on a T speedster. That includes air-foils, yes, air-foils. Just like off of a modern sprint car. Era RESTORED T speedsters and race cars need to keep to things that typically were done.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Are there any pre-'29 Indy cars in their museum with downdrafts?
Doug and Wayne, yes you are correct and the book is misleading without all of the pages. With respect to the rear wing, look at all of the little cars on the road today sold with a rear wing.
Ricks : The Miller 91 c/i straight "8" DOHC supercharged engine that was dominant from 1926-1929 had a intake manifold shaped like a question mark that was attached to the blower with a right angle turn to a circular vertical 4-bolt flange . This flange was designed so that the manifold could be turned and re-attached in 90 degree intervals . This allowed for updraft , sidedraft , and downdraft induction , without any permanent modifications . As Winfield worked at Millers` shop as a machinist during his day job , that MAY be where he got the idea for the similar flange on the "O" and "N" racing carburetors . There were custom manifolds , intercoolers , and blowers , too . In fact , probably more " custom-by-the-factory to customer`s designs " than factory set-ups were used , as car owners tried to find an edge over the other identical cars that Miller sold to every customer with the money . The problem , of course , is knowing WHEN the manifold was unbolted , and turned around . It could have changed between practice and a race , it was that easy . And , there would be no trace left to prove when , without a dated picture . I still have one of those manifolds around the shop , somewhere . I hope this helps everyone understand the problems and issues involved here . I could post a picture of the manifold , if I could figure out how , if there is enough demand . ,,,,,,,,,,Doug