I will shortly be installing the inner oil seals on the rear axles of my 15 T to keep oil off the brakes. I have read the service manual but have several questions.
1. Do the outer bearings slip out as easy as the manual indicates ?
2. Do I need a special tool to pull the bearing sleeves or is there another way?
3. Are the new seals just pushed in until they rest against some sort of lip ?
4, The outer seals come in 2 varieties, the original felt and a newer neoprene type (read .. expensive). Is the original type adaquate ?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.
1. Mine can out easy with a home made tool.
2. I made a tool in a few minutes out of a section of heavy pipe.
3. The inner seal sets up against a lip.
4. I don't know but with a good inner seal to hold the gear lube, the outer seal just keeps the grease and brake dust separated.
Home made puller:
Bud, there will be others that answer your questions better than I can. I had seals on my 11 and 15 that were leaking as well. Someone here on the webb suggested drilling a small hole in the differential housing under the hyatt bearings to allow oil to be released before reaching the seals. I used a 1/16" bit. I believe what drained out was engine oil that had come out of the back of the transmission, not the heavy differential oil. For sometime I had to put a tin can under each hole or it would result in a mess. Now it is rare that any oil comes out of the holes. Sometime I will replace the seals but not at this time.
Another thought on the puller, with the axle still on the housing you would have to come up with another way to hold the pin into the hole in the bearing sleeve but I'm sure you could find something to hold the pin. Maybe a large screwdriver?
The bearing can be removed by taking a wire and bending a hook on it, and hooking the outside cage of the bearing and pull it right out. There is a special tool to remove the sleeve available from the vendors. I suppose you could make one, but it would not be easy. The seals go in to the end of the tubular axle housing, where it is rivited to the bearing and backing plate assembly. In most cases, you might need to grind off part of the sleeve to make the sleeve go in all the way. After you install the seal, with some sealer around the outside of the seal, push in the sleeve as far as it will go, and if it sticks out about 1/16 to 1/8 inch, pull out the sleeve and grind that same amount off the inside edge of the sleeve, and then re-install the sleeve. Be sure to get the dimple into the hole in the housing, and the hole in line with the grease fitting. Grease up the bearing install and place the outer seal.
Dad and I just did this on the Tudor.
1. I'm assuming your rear end is still completely together. Sometimes the bearings will come right out with the axle shafts installed and sometimes they won't. Just take off the caps (you may need a pair of very large channel locks) and then pull on them with a bent piece of heavy wire. Regardless, that's the way they come out so you'll just have to see how tight they are.
2. Because of the way everything is made, I think you'll have to use the tool. If you do, removal and installation are pretty easy as long as you turn it so the sleeve compresses itself. You'll understand what I mean by looking at a sleeve. If I remember correctly, turn the tool so the direction goes from the grease hole towards the V opening. It will be different from one side to another.
3. There is a machined area for the bearings that creates a lip inside, so yes, just push the seal in (flat side facing out towards the wheel) until it seats on this face at the bottom of the bearing sleeve.
4. I would assume the neoprene works much better and would last longer. Pry open that dusty wallet and get the better one and skip the coffee in the morning for a couple days, it's worth it!
Some advice - you may want to also consider the outer caps with the seal. I put these on the car but don't have any experience with them (my other T's don't have them); hopefully other guys will chime in on how they compare to original. I used them because keeping the brakes clean and dry was worth the extra money to me. Also, none of this work was overly hard or time consuming. If it's really hard to turn the tool, try the other direction just keep that in mind. Other than that, if you can take the wheels off yourself, you can do the seal replacement no problem.
Bud, The bearings should pull right out. However, if the sleeves are badly worn and have a lip at the outer side the bearings may hang up on the lip. The lip is usually at the top of the sleeve so pull down on the bearing as you remove it to clear the lip. Then pull the sleeve with a sleeve puller. The original bearings leaked because they only had a felt seal on the outside of the bearing. There are two types of neoprene inner seals. The first type uses a lip type seal. These are ok until the axle goes off center due to worn bearings, sleeves and axles. They then begin to leak. The best seal is the neoprene boot type seal. It will follow the axle off center and maintain a seal. If you use a good neoprene seal on the inside of the outer bearing you can use the original felt seals on the outside with no problems. This is because the addition of the inner seal makes the bearing a sealed bearing and the differential oil can no longe dilute the outer bearing grease causing an oil leak to the outside.
Before you install the neoprene seal, wrap the keyway with masking tape so a sharp edge won't nick the seal. If the seal id is nicked on installation it will fail in short order.
Check to make sure you still have plenty of grease/oil in the rear end. Those holes were a commonly recommended "fix" many years ago. A lot of people ruined rear ends after the engine oil diluted the rear end grease enough that it all ran out.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Please post the seal ID number. THANKS, as always.
If your speaking of the seals I'm going to install, they are Langs part # 2511AS.
Bob, Bud, Lang's buys that part from us. We are the source. It is our design and not available from your local seal parts dealer.
The felt seal is the most expensive, because it's a waste of money.
If you use felt seals inner and outer you will soon figure out why the cars came new without brake linings. It's because gearoil ruins brake linings.
remember too that on the early cars the gearoil level should be an inch below the filler plug when the car is sitting on the level.
I have alwas wondered why inner seals were needed. Two winters ago I rebuilt the rear differential on my 26 tudor. I pulled the inner seals and left them out. I used the outer seal to replace the old style cap felt and washer PN T2510. I then filled it as full as I could with 600 wt. oil. i did pack outer bearings with grease. During the first summer I checked the outer bearings several times, they were always covered with oil. I have not had any leaks. Recently after a fifty mile drive I felt the outer bearing area, it was cool to the touch. I respect your opinions Mflynn
That's great info on the aluminum end caps, thanks.
The job starts here....
The bearing revealed...
The old shell comes out...
The Ford inner seal we are replacing...
The wear ridge on the old bearing shell that can make the roller bearing cage tricky to pull out.
Install the neoprene seal then put the new shell in.....
Then the bearing...
Here you can see the area with all parts removed and the ledge that holds the inner seal can be clearly seen, as well as the hole for the grease cup that coresponds to the hole in the bearing shell.
I agree that the felt inner seals are a waste of money. I installed the new neoprene seals in my runabout with no trouble. Yes, the sleeve puller is very handy and a good investment.
I thoroughly cleaned out the housing with lacquer thinner to remove any trace of grease, and before installing the seals I put a thin layer of non hardening Permatex on the inner edge of the metal where it butts against the tube. As Ted says, tape the keyway so it doesn't cut the neoprene. Slather a thin layer of grease on the axle and slide in the seal. I found that my sleeves went into place with no need for shortening them. The seal wasn't thick enough to require it. I wish every job on a T was this easy.
Wow, what great responses! Thank you all for takeing the time to respond!
The pictures were most helpful. I am going to order the inner neoprene seals and the bearing shell removeing tool. When I get the job done I will post the results.
BTW Chilly here in Florida this morning, woke up to 38 degrees. Now to see if Liz will start. Need to go riding and show off my new "horseless carrige" license plates !
29 deg here this A.M. I have to take Lizzy out to show off the new valves.
Schuh, Good luck and don't worry. It is a pretty easy job. If your bearings have one end of the rollers that measures a bit smaller than the other (common wear pattern), put the smaller ends to the inside. That puts the best end facing out, and recieving the greatest pressure.
Got the bearing sleeve removal tool here in Lynn Haven if you need it - you can save the money unless you really want your own. Ted M. @230-7236.