Pic of pre T Fords

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Pic of pre T Fords
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Manuel Voyages on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 04:29 am:

I don't know how to post a pic but here is the Webshot address:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2319227860029539674kWRCBq

Pic is of the Freeport Garage.

Manuel in Oz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 08:03 am:

Manuel,

Thank you so much for the link to the Pre-Ts. We are always looking for early photos of the early Fords. Note the mixture of bicycle and automobile service and parts at the Freeport Garage. The large banner is not advertising cars but rather a Quick Operating Grease Gun. And the sign on the telephone pole reads “DANGER Busy Crossing Slow Down” Again the photo comes from: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2319227860029539674kWRCBq




The only Fords I recognized are on the right hand side.



The Model N without the running boards is in front. The next car I would have to look at closer. The photo does not show if it does or does not have running boards. The shape of the front fender isn’t clear to me from that angle. And I haven’t been able to zoom in and see if it has the N front fender or the R & S front fender. But clearly another Ford runabout of the N family series. The third car with the light color paint appears to have the R & S shaped front fender. That would indicate it could be either an R or S Runabout. The fourth car we see only the dash, side lamp, and steering column. I cannot zoom enough to confirm it is a NRS (we know it is not an SR – because it has a flat cowl) but if the photo was staged I would bet the Fords were put together. And the parts I can see of the fourth car all are appropriate for an NRS runabout.

Note the photo has written in ink 1908. But all the side lamps I see on the NRS runabouts have the rounded faces and the bail handles. While sometime during 1907 the square sided E&J pat pending side lamps were introduced. Base on that I suspect the photo could have been taken as early as 1907 (the Model R was not available in 1906).
running boards (different front fender shape) and if so could be either a Model R or S runabout (easy to tell from the rear – Rounded read deck on the R and a pointed rear deck on the S runabout – but I cannot see that in this photo). The third car also has a much lighter paint color. I would love to know more about that – was it from the factory or repainted by the dealer or owner? But I am leaning towards the third car being a Model S Runabout. If the wheels are original and 28 x 3 then it is an S Runabout and if they are the taller 30 x 3 and original to the car then it would be an R Runabout.

The roadster in the front is NOT a Model K – they had fully elliptical front springs and that one has a spring only on the top. It reminds me of the American Underslung Automobiles but I will let someone more knowledgeable ID that one as well as the other two cars which I do not think are Fords.

Again thank you so much for sharing the photo.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 08:21 am:



Hap, is this an American Underslung?

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 08:25 am:

What a great photo!!!Dave C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 08:38 am:

Herb,

I’m sorry but I do not recognize the car in the photo you posted. But I do not believe it is an American Underslung. The Underslung cars had the frame below the springs rather than the more typical of the times location of the frame above the springs. Below is shown a 1913 American Underslung showing clearly the spring then axle then frame. Photo located at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1913-american-underslung.jpg



The frame in that photo does not match the frame in the Freeport Garage photo. Perhaps different makes of cars or perhaps different years or model numbers?

I haven’t had time to figure out how to download the original photo. I think I have to join the site to do that? But if someone downloads the photo – please e-mail it to me or confirm I need to join the site at: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2319227860029539674kWRCBq to down load the Freeport Garage photo. I would like to study it more.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Harper . . Keene, NH on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 08:44 am:

Hi Herb,
I'm pretty sure that car is not an American Underslung. As I understand it, the underslung aspect refers to the frame being suspended under the axles. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 11:03 am:

Thanks guys.
Did you notice that the pre-T cars had no headlights?
I guess that they were an option like they were on the early T's.
I now know what all those "spot-lites' were.
I guess they were single mounted hesdlights.

Herb

A picture is worth a thousand words.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Pitts on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 11:07 am:

I can definitely see the frame under the front axle in the larger version of the picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Woolf on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 12:26 pm:

The American Underslung in the first picture is probably a 1907 or 1908. The car directly behind it is a Rambler.

The picture that Herb posted is definitely not an American underslung. With the picture enlarged, it is very easy to see the frame above the springs and axle. The underslung arrangement has the springs and axle located above the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 01:37 pm:

...Kinda looks like the rear fender on that car in Herb's photo is messed up...

Those proportions and reveals don't look factory..or correct. Looks like it had some "accidental" body work done :D


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Woolf on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 05:32 pm:

The car in the photo is definitely an American Underslung. It is hard to tell but it a 40 or 50 horsepower car and would have been built in 1906 or 1907. The car Hap pictured is an American Underslung Scout. They were built in 1912 and 1913. The Scout was a small car not much bigger than a Model T. American was in business from 1906-1914 and only a few still exist.

Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Aiken, SC on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 05:56 pm:

I believe that American Underslung also made a conventional chassied tourer (not referred to as underslung). Their entire line up wasn't axle over frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Manuel Voyages on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 07:18 pm:

What I found interesting was the way the pic was posed or set up.
A photo would have been a big deal 100 or so years ago.
The shop owner was obviously proud of his business with its large newish building and cement footpath all around.
An Underslung would have been a fast, expensive car then [compared to Fords anyway]. It sure looks it.
So they put the nicer/faster cars out front and shove the gaggle of Fords down the side.
One of the boys drives the nice tourer [that has been sitting in the workshop] out the back door just in time for the photo.
So, why did they have a gaggle of Fords?
They were not Ford dealers. Maybe they were in for repairs or trade ins?
Anyway, I am just thinking out loud.
Manuel in Oz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Woolf on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 07:46 pm:

American did make conventional chassis cars up until about 1910. The car pictured in the earlier post is not an American.

Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles W. Little, South Paris, Maine on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 01:00 pm:

Does anyone have any idea where this was taken? Freeport where???????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 02:25 pm:

I did some searches in Freeport, Minnesota and found the Bennett name quite common in the area. I didn't find anything conclusive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 04:29 pm:

Correction for those who look at this in the future. Oops I said the Model K Ford came with fully elliptical front springs -- but they actually came with semi-elliptical front springs (one on each side). But the Model K has the spring below the frame rather than above the frame -- so the car in the photo still is definitely not a Model K Ford. For addtiional details on the Model K Ford see Bruce's catalog at: http://mtfca.com/books/bookmenu.htm and look at the 1906, 1907, and 1908 sales brochures with the Model K in them.

Respectfully corrected,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 06:40 pm:

This is an American UN-underslung!un


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 06:43 pm:

This is a not at all sporty American underslung.un1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil McKay on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 07:30 pm:

I copied the first photo into Microsoft Word and and then considerably enlarged it after setting the page size to 20 by 22 inches.

The frame does appears to be under the front axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 01:58 am:

Anyone want's to bid on what the motorcycle is?
(Yes - there is a motorcycle on that picture as well :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 08:00 am:

Michael, it's a two wheeled one.:-)

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 10:06 pm:

Correction: Trent kindly sent me an e-mail sharing he believes all the Fords on the right side of the photo were Model N Runabouts. The Model N photos at Model T Haven were helpful to me in seeing how the Model N Runabout front fender can appear from certain angles to have a flat section at the front. See: http://modelthaven.com/06f.html

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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