New Repair Method for Freeze Cracks

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: New Repair Method for Freeze Cracks
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 10:32 pm:

I know some of our posters my take issue with my new method for fixing those pesky seeping leaks from an old freeze crack but I'll post this in case someone else may want to try it.

I've tried JB Weld and some solder in the past and some worked for awhile but none a good as my latest.

We've all heard and many of us have used the RIGHT STUFF made by Permatex. In my opinion its the best there is abiet a bit expensive. I used it to glue a modern seal to the front crankshaft and no more leaks so why not?

I've been very sucessful patching and stopping leaks from the water jacket using a piece of brass shim stock for a patch and The Right Stuff.

I sanded off the paint down to the bare metal and made sure it was oil free. I cut a small piece and carefully formed it to the block surface then applied the sealer to the shimstock and pressed it over the crack. I smoothed it out as best I could feathering out the edges and let it set up over night. Apply a coat of matching paint and so far I've never had another problem after over 2,000 miles now of touring.

I would not have recommended this fix except after I tried it and was so sucessful I thought I should pass it on to others that may be thinking of JB Weld, soldering, pinning, welding, brazing, stop leak, bubble gum or some other way.

Yes, I'll be first to say it's sort of shade tree and you can see it, depending how close you look and where it is but rather than pulling the engine to do a permanent repair which I had paid plenty to have done without complete success this is so easy and worked so well for me the first time thanks to the Right Stuff.

Thanks Permatex!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 11:09 pm:

Gene

Thanks for posting that. I'm not in that fix right now, but someday I might be and its nice to know that someone's found something that works.

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 11:23 pm:

Gene: Seeing your post I was wondering if y0u did this. Did you drill a small releaf hole at the end of the crack? I would think that would be a good idea so as to stop the crack from going in the direction that it started. Just a thought!

Bill D #14079


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 01:53 am:

I used to do that on the Ford Fiesta transaxles.
The bolts would loosen and drop out of the front drive axle flange where it bolted to the differential and when it got down to just one bolt left in the drive flange would swing out a nd poke a hole in the transaxle housing.
I would clean and sand the housing and apply the RTV and put a thin metal patch over the hole.
The only one I ever saw come off was when the bolts of one axle came out again.
I just did the same fix again and it was OK for several years after that.
They were the only cars I ever owned that you could ALWAYS get 33 MPG. But they rode like the rear wheels were under the front seats, actually they were a couple of inches behind the front seats. Bump,bump, bump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 10:46 am:

The only reason a crack like that would continue to travel is if you let the block freeze again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - SE Georgia on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 11:57 am:

Gene,

No need to apologize for making a shadetree fix. Sounds like a good one to me. Lately there has been a lot of ridicule on here for doing such things. So much so, that I'll bet a lot of guys are scared to make a post such as yours. Good for you and more power to you. I understand that a professional may not be able to get away with doing such things when their customers are paying good (And big) money to have professional work done. BUT.....that doesn't mean that hundreds or thousands of the rest of us can't do acceptable shadetree fixes on our own stuff. And we shouldn't have to apologize for doing so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 01:43 pm:

No I wasn't apologizing just making room for others to critique and offer ideas.

No, I hesitate to put any more "holes" in my '12 block and since these weren't continued stress related i doubt they will continue with our temps in SoCal.

Finding a couple more weeping spots in a different area prompted me to post this method of repair since I had been so sucessful with my first one.

Aaron, you mention RTV which I have not had great luck with sticking if there is any oil close by. It's most noticable when removing something like a pan gasket and you see the oil under one or both sides and realize why it was leaking oil.

I'll post again about how these new patches work out later next year after a couple more thousand miles. I was lucky these were just on the underside in front of the water outlet and at the very rear of the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 10:06 pm:

On the Fiesta geargoxes I used The Rite Stuff. I thought that was RTV. It isn't?
I made those repairs as a proffesional.
I gave them a choice, get a new case ( more than the car was worth for the parts), put in a junkyard transaxle (still a lot of money and no gaurentee), or put a patch on it with a 15 minute or 5 mile gaurentee, whichever comes first.
They all went for the patch and I never was sorry.
Those cars were junked or traded off before they needed more work on the trans leak.
When you work on old cars with high milage you can't always repair it to make the purists happey.
i've also put patches and plugs in tires instead of replacing them with new. So what?
I had customers that went 200,000 miles on the same master cylinder and I know mechanics that won't change front pads without replacing the master cylinder every time. That is ripping the customer for sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gilmore on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 10:50 pm:

I need to patch some frost cracks. Tried soldering but it did not flow into the crack. Was going to try JB weld next, but like your suggestion so will pick up a tube of Right Stuff tomorrow.
Thanks for sharing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 12:15 am:

I have used a number of adhesive repairs on many different things. I often recommend it. My reason is, that often, the heat of a welding repair can do more harm. Properly done, adhesive repairs can last for more years than you or your children will. And if anyone ever wants to "do it right", the adhesives can be easily removed and someone can weld to their heart's content.
Newer welding technologies do distort less. I have a 60+ year old Smith oxy/acetylene set and a 50 year old Lincoln 220V "buzz box" (both were my dad's. I have been welding since I was 12). I don't see a wire-feed in my budgets future anytime soon.
I have given this advice many times in the past thirty or more years. I just read an article in the VMCCA Bulb Horn magazine (I think that is where it was), it gave the same advice and some good information to support it.
Options are good. If a cheap fix can save an antique part and keep it from being junked, I call that a good thing.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the season, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 01:58 am:

At last! Somebody who supports mending something with what they have rather than the current trend to have a new one cast in a zerogravity foundry at NASA or something (horrifically expensive). So refreshing to read this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 04:16 am:

This reminds of a repair I did to an aluminium gearbox casing on a front wheel drive car - the oil always seemed to be low and eventually I found a crack where something must have flipped up off the road, hit it hard, and cracked it.
The repair was to coat the area with silastic and then screw a piece of aluminium over the crack with small self tappers. It was a complete success and lasted the life of the car. Would do the same again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 05:08 am:

Aaron, I have never heard of replacing a master cylinder when changing front pads! You are right, nothing but a ripoff! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 05:22 am:

I once saw a T head that had been cracked on the top of the water jacket, where they always crack when frozen. It had a steel plate formed over the crack and secured with screws that were tapped into the head. It appeared to have worked great. I think that sometimes we tend to overthink this old technology. To paraphrase an old heavy construction contractor that I used do welding for, "it's just a f*****g old Model T, it ain't a Swiss watch!" Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks_-_Surf_City on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 08:17 am:

Speaking of modren brakes, I never even replace the rotors if they're not undersize.

Old, ugly fluid will get pushed back up into the MC when you push the pistons back, causing future grief with the MC, and especially the ABS box.

First thing I do is put a two foot long stick between the brake pedal and the seat, then run the seat forward until it engages the brake enough that it blocks the return hole in the MC. Retracting the pistons means you have to open the bleed valve. Out comes that dirty fluid.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 07:56 pm:

Thanks for the tip on changing brake fluid.


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