Care to differentiate???

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Care to differentiate???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:28 pm:

Cold and foggy up here today so it was out to the mancave for some R&R... remove and replace!
Finished up putting the newer handbrake stuff on and found out that the shaft has too much side thrust on it and the pawl drops off the quadrant. Cut a loop off of a spring and snapped it on like a snap ring... perfect!
Now on to the differential. This is a large drum 26-27 with an early spool and a stepped torque tube. Any guesses on the years on the tube. I have the late model spool to put in, but I want to get the motor back together before I start this part. I did order rod dippers and shackles today tho... ws






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:33 pm:

I would say the driveshaft housing is right for a '26-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:35 pm:

Got the trans pretty well built today as well. Theres about 20 things I learned on this, but, what was Ford thinking? The clutch drum set screw, according to the book, gets a cotter pin to secure it. To mid air that is... I tried to wire it but the hub is tapered. I guess the pin will do... along with some locktite. What a pain in the ganochies to line up the triple gears! Kept all 12 fingernails today haha!
Some pics and a youtube to watch... hope it works; its hard to compete with pacman here! ws





and now for the French speaking counterparts here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nffwNAvRqr0&list=HL1323909302&feature=mh_lolz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Brownsburg,In. on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:37 pm:

Hope you ordered new bushings? That spring could use an oiler on it. Your stepped housing is good,just swap spools.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:41 pm:

Geez Verne... I always thought they were smooth for the improved cars. Here I thought maybe I had an '09 that was worth a grand LOL. ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:58 pm:

Hey Jack... ordered the shackle set today. Now I can start my FAYYYYVORITE job and thats pounding old bushings' out, especially on the spring ! I suppose Ill try to change out the spool while the shackles are off. Im sure thatll lead into babbit thrust washers, and axle bearings etc etc etc. One step forward and 3 steps backerds! ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 09:41 pm:

Bill:

For that early spool to fit on a later rear end - somebody has machined off the lip of that spool most likely - too bad since that renders it wrecked for use on a correct early rear end. The surface I am talking about is the rear surface of the spool where it mates with the front most surface of the differential housing. The early differential housings have a lip machined on them to accept the early spool housing mating lip. Without that relief machining lip on the differential housing you can't fit the early spool to it so often people will cut off the spool lip and rely on the removable sleeve to hold things centered. Not a good way to do it since sometimes the sleeve is a pretty loose fit in the early spool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield, KS on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 09:49 pm:

One way to remove stubborn spring and perch bushings is to put a hacksaw blade through the hole and cut them. You just have to be careful to cut only the bushing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 10:36 pm:

Bill, it would be nice if it were an early part! It is fun to find one now and then. So far, I have not been able to quit my day job on the quantities I've found. Like John R. says, if someone has machined off the lip on that early spool it could be worthless too. I've torn apart about four dozen rear axles to find enough innards for about 6 cars. I recently went to "Lost Wages" and my luck wasn't any better there than it is at home. I guess luck isn't affected by geograpics!
Verne


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 11:42 pm:

I wouldn't have any luck at all if it weren't for bad luck.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the season! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 09:57 am:

Bill,

The cotter pin that goes through the set screw head should be a long one, with only one side bent over. This allows the straight leg to hit the drum and prevent the set screw from backing out. You choose the proper hole orientation such that the unbent leg points to and touches the drum surface without its having to already back out some to do so. I guess the Loc-Tite is fine too as long as the heat won't degrade it.

You need at least something help retain it however. I found a loose setscrew lodged in my triple gears years ago that locked my transmission in "high", sort of. (Previous "restorer's" work) I plucked out the loose screw and drove the car for several more years until it had to come apart for other things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:31 am:

As Jerry posted. That cotter in has one leg bent down for purchase, or the head of the pin can also hit the drum and stop a set screw from turning its way out of place.

In this picture the pin is straighten for removal.







I like to crimp the cotter pin over too, no need in that cotter pin getting loose in the trans either :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:39 am:

Wow Dan! You've got a picture for just about anything. You must have them indexed very well to call them up when needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 11:23 am:

Thank you very much for some definitive answers AND pics to boot! I bought a CD of the manual and of course all the pics are black and white blobs and of little use!
The cotter pin that I took out was smaller and shorter and could unscrew without ever hitting ANY resistence. The whole assembly went together well so far, except that I neglected the part about bolting the driven shaft into the flywheel for assembly. I was trying to rely on the fit to hold it in place, and of course the shaft dropped 1/32" and I couldnt get the set screw started. That in itself took an hour to figure out. At the closing bell last nite, everything spins nicely, but I still need to check for the .005" clearance on the 3 washers under the clutch hub.
So todays honey-do list is done I can go play.... gonna put the clutch together so that I can FINALLY start putting the motor back together. Thanks again guys! More questions and pics later Im sure... ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 11:33 am:

"Without that relief machining lip on the differential housing you can't fit the early spool to it so often people will cut off the spool lip and rely on the removable sleeve to hold things centered."

Thanks John... just my luck some knucklehead left the spool intact and took a burr grinder to the main housing instead! LOL. As it stands for now, all I know is that there is 600w in the rear end.
And on that note, the axles have the tin donut covering the seals, BUT, the wheel hub has an undercut for a felt washer. Do I still need to put a felt in place? ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 12:16 pm:

Bill,

While you're into it this far, confirm that you've got bronze thrust washers in the differential and not the old white metal/babbit style that will fail and leave you without brakes & hope.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 12:59 pm:

Bill Stephan:
I wish you were closer I would give you a pair of 26/27 housings plus a correct rear drive shaft bearing spool. As it looks now some day they will all end up at the junk yard to be melted.
Also don't ever try to cut out your spring hanger pushing press them out. Stevens and other tool companies made punches especially for that. Surly someone in your club has one. If not, any plug the same size as the outside diameter as the bushing will do the job and not hurt your spring perch. Pressing out bushings is not only safer for your perches but a LOT FASTER AND EASIER.

A853


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 02:35 pm:

Bill,

You are too tight setting the clutch drum to thrust washer clearance at .005 - ideally is .015-.022 (per Ford manual). A spare driven gear turned upside down under the assembly so two opposite teeth engage the two dowels in the flywheel will act as a backup to the main shaft thus making it quite easy to drive the clutch drum into position with the proper clearance and lock with the set screw.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 05:09 pm:

Just got in from the frozen tundra... the 35 foot walk from the shop that is! That ol' flivver got the better of me yesterday, and I mis-construed some numbers. The running clearance under the triple gears was supposed to be .005-.006 and it ended up a tite .006. I can live with that. Today I double checked the clutch drum depth and it was righ at .015.
Cleaned and inspected all 25 clutch discs and the were perfect and are now resting comfortably in the completed unit. I had the bride come out and start the spring pin while I pressed it down. The trick to that is to back off the three clutch fingers, install the spring and then reset the clutch bearing height to 13/16".
Then it was on to the mag coil... Dave: I never cut the bushings as you say. Usually they are worn through one side and I merely collapse them with a cape chisel. The spring sides are usually a bastard since the spring is kinda floating there... ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 05:43 pm:

PACMAN 7... model T ZERO.Sure wish this forum used a different format. I run a boating forum and its smooth sailing. www.flybridge.proboards.com Take a look...

Sooo after a half hour odyssey resizing some pics we may continue...Just some odds-n-ends here: clutch screws backed out for the spring pin install, some safety wiring, which as the experts will poit out, is run in the loosening direction. The screws only have one wire hole and sure as heck, it lines up perfectly with being un-aligned for a wire to pass through properly. Hmmm.
The beautiful mag coil was done by Wally in Chicago. I dont have the alignment tool so it was all done by machinist scale. The book called for 27/32" from the crank flange to the coil frame. I had 28/32" so I had to make up a 1/32 shim. Worked out super! Now I need to make a .006-.010 pair for the sides to offset the ring for the transmission sag. Thats tomorrow... gaskets should be here too so I can start to really enjoy the fruits of my labor... ws


Corrected from yesterday... still seems kinda lame, but whatcha gonna do...






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 05:51 pm:

What a whirlwind tour eh? Its good to be retired, but the money sux! This is the longest building a flivver has ever taken me, but then again, I never needed to do a trans either.
On the spool Dave. I have the correct one on the shelf, all cleaned, honed and painted. Its just waiting for me to pull the driveshaft and change it... probably along with the babbited thrust bearings!~ ws




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