Spindle Bolt

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Spindle Bolt
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By KEN PARKER on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 01:33 pm:

I have bushed and reamed the front spindle on a '25. I faced the bushings to fit between the axle but when I tighten the spindle bolt, it tightens the space and clamps the spindle.

There is the spindle nut below that locks the spindle bolt into the lower part of the axle where there are threads. I can take off some more face from the bushings but I don't want to take off more than I have to.

I wanted to ask how tight should I come down on the spindle bolt before I lock with the lower nut? I haven't done this before.

Thanks for guidance

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way . Wa. on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 01:50 pm:

Take it to where you are tight and you it feals good stearing ,then put on the bottom lock nut with cotterpin and you should be good to go.
my .02 cents worth.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard wolf on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 06:02 pm:

Damn Bob;
You need to learn how to spell. Sorry but I had to say it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 08:55 pm:

Mr. Wolph - I wish Will Rogers was still around to meet you!

My apologies to the rest of the forum folks; I was taught that "two wrongs don't make a right",......but I'm also sorry,.......I had to say it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way . Wa. on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 09:17 pm:

Can't spill very will but I'm still having one hell of a lot fun. Can't all be perfect I guess.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard wolf on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 09:32 pm:

Harold;
While we are at it, on your profile you can't remember where you live or you can't spell it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska - Denver Colorado on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 09:45 pm:

Richard,

I checked your profile and you are a real Dick.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard wolf on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 09:54 pm:

Yeah, I'm a real Dick, but I can spell and I'm not afraid to tell people where I live in my profile. Nice '14.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 10:16 pm:

Bob may not be able to spell very well, but I would much rather read his postings than yours Richard. So far, I haven't had any problem reading his posts and they are much more interesting and informative than yours. Sorry, but I had to say it too. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard wolf on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 10:35 pm:

David;
I guess I will have to post more posts so I can catch up with you guys that are on here all the time. Almost 400 posts since the middle of July. WOW


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska - Denver Colorado on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 10:47 pm:

Dick,

It would seem that David has had something valuable to contribute to the forum.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 10:53 pm:

Richard, everyone on here that has been "on here all the time" started out in the middle of July. The sight was hacked and everyone had to re-register in mid July. Several of them went back MANY years with thousands of posts. I am a relative newby, I started posting in '08 after lurking for a couple of years or so. I only had 2600 posts when everything was lost, for whatever that's worth. I have learned WAY more on here than I ever knew, but once in awhile I try to spread some of my very limited knowledge when I can. Can't recall that I've made fun of anyone's spelling though, you must be very proud. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska - Denver Colorado on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:35 am:

Ken,

Letís get this back on topic. IMHO adjusting the kingpins is a lot like adjusting the front wheel bearings. You get it just right and then tighten the lock nut and it is too tight. You back off a 1/4 turn and when you tighten the locknut the damn thing is loose! The kingpins need to be tight. If you tighten them and the spindles lock up or are hard to turn then you need to face the bushings a little more. If you get it just right and the spindles get tight when you tighten the lock nuts you might need to take a tiny bit more off of the bushing face. When you get it right the car steers like a dream. Just my .02

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska - Denver Colorado on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:57 am:

Crud!

Kingpins = Spindle bolts.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 03:26 am:

Furst tiem i rebuilded a modle T frunt ind, i lefdt id to tite. i wass laet four aen apointmint sow drov fourty miels frum san JOsey two Haywurd. Bouy wer mi armms tiered. Wurked grate tho.
W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 03:32 am:

So Wayne, did you get to your appointment on time? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 10:58 am:

You can set the spindle bolts just right, and then when you lock them with the nut, it can change your original setting. I keep adjusting, until I get the correct fit with the bolt and the nut. And of course then you have to line up the cotter pin hole!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 05:13 pm:

In reality, the tightness of the bolt has nothing to do with how the spindle should be. If the bushings are reamed properly and the thrust surfaces have some clearance, just snug the bolt some and install the nut. The spindle bolt is not a adjustment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Sutton on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 05:34 pm:

Jim, that's not what the shop manual says.

Craig


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 05:59 pm:

David,
Yes I did get where I needed to be on time. I had planned to take the back roads with a freshly done front end (always recommended with fresh work in case something doesn't go right). But was running late by the time I got it done. So I took highway 17, which for decades had and has been famous the world over as one of the roughest modern highways in the world. The fun was that every time I went over a rough spot, the bump would point me slightly right or left. I would then have to "strong-arm" the car back for a few more feet. It was about thirty miles of that highway, and my arms hurt for two days afterward.
The reason that it was too tight was that I did not (still don't) have the proper reamer. So I did what I usually do. I trim and measure, trim and measure and trim again and measure again. It is slower, but if proper care is taken, excellent results can be achieved.

Jim S,
I totally agree. a T front axle cannot compress enough to make a significant difference in front end tightness. Attempting to do so could have been the cause of a few king-pin breakages I have heard of over the years.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the season! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 06:10 pm:

Craig, I must have overlooked the part in the manual that said to use the bolt as a adjustment. The bushings are fitted without the bolt in place and if correct they are no reason to tighten the bolt to the extent that it deforms the yoke. If tightened to add resistance to the movement, it will only last a short time untill the thrust wears back to the clearance that should have been there to start with. The spindle should turn without binding but without excess play in any direction. Not argueing with the manual just using many years working with machines and also tightning these bolts with no good results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Sutton on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 08:06 pm:

Jim, apparently you DID.

Page 167, paragraph 689:
"Position spindle on axle, oil spindle bolt and insert it through axle and spindle,running the bolt down into lower side of axle (see Fig. 371). THE BOLT IS THEN DRAWN DOWN UNTIL THE CORRECT TIGHTNESS IS OBTAINED; this can be checked by turning the spindle back and forth by hand. A slight resistance should be felt when moving the spindle. When the correct adjustment is obtained run on the spindle bolt nut, drawing it down tightly against axle, and locking the nut with a cotter key."

I know that the spindles are fitted with a reamer and then installed with no pressure from the king pin bolt. This is how we fit ours the other day. However the manual, not me, says that an adjustment can be made.

Otherwise, are we supposed to install new bushings and ream them every time they wear a few thousandths? I am not recommending that the kingpin bolts be cranked down on bushings that have .180" clearance, but the manual does say that the bolt is used to tighten the spindle. I suppose individual owners can decide how hard they want to crank on the bolts. Personally, I will try to "take up" a slight amount of wear after we drive the car a while, but if it seems like the axle isn't "clamping" with a short socket wrench (no 5' cheater bars here), I'll replace the (inexpensive) bushings.

Craig


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 10:32 pm:

The kingpin (spindle bolt) needs clearance in the spindle.
Once you have the proper clearance use the threads and lock nut to adjust for drag.
Drag is the fit between the axle bosses and the spindle.......not the kingpin clearance in the spindle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By KEN PARKER on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 07:40 pm:

I followed the suggestions and fit the spindle where I could tighten the bolt moderately, just short of locking and ran up the castle nut. Got it to where I could cotterpin the nut. Drives like a dream. Never thought such a small amount of play could cause so much difference.

I ordered the tools available from the venders which do cost a few bucks. I feel they are well worth it when you can ream and adjust the face of the bushings so close. There is no slop when you are through if you take a little time to get it right. Also, I took a shade more off the bottom bushing to leave more on the top one.

Replaced the spring shackle bushings and took two of the grand daughters for a ride. Priceless no matter how you spell it. Have fun.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way . Wa. on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 12:56 am:

Ken
Thanks for posting the end results,and glad that we could make suggestions that helped you in some way, thats what the forum is all about

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 02:23 pm:

I am still wondering about how tight the nut should be. I always thought that the purpose of the nut was to keep the King Pin from backing off and that it needed to be just tight enough to do that and as a result keep the King Pin from slopping around which causes the failure of the threads in the bottom of the axle. Am I missing something?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 04:09 pm:

Way to go Ken! The right tools do make the job easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Sutton on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 07:05 pm:

Val, I think you are correct in that all it does is prevent the bolt from backing out. Therefore, it would probably not have any torque value or other special installation instructions.

Ken, thanks for letting us know how it worked out. Although I've done this twice now, I've never driven either vehicle. The '15 I used to cruise around in was VERY loose in the steering and was quite the shimmy'er if it was in a bad mood. I can't wait to try one out that's in like-new condition. Enjoy your T!

Craig


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By KEN PARKER on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 01:18 pm:

If you can move the spindle/wheel at all with the wheel jacked up, it is well worth the job. You will be glad you did it.

Ken in Texas


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