Rear Axle Castellated Nut

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Rear Axle Castellated Nut
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 07:40 pm:

You know how when your planning a job on your T, you always anticipate that this part of the job will be easy and another part will be difficult, well it didn't work out that way today.

I was replaceing the inner oil seal on the left rear axle and everything was going MUCH better than expected. The bearing pulled right out, miked as good as new, sleve came right out, and the oil seal went in all without a hitch. Reassembly went easy too ... until I tried to put on the axle nut.

The PO had put a standard nut on the axle, shimming it out with washers so that the cotter pin would fit snugly against the face of the nut. Knowing this wasn't right I had purchased a new castelated nut from Lang's to replace it.

Now the old (standard) nut fit fine, not too loose on the axle, not to tight, definitely not cross threaded, a normal fit for a nut on a male threaded shaft. So finishing the job should be easy right....uh - uh. The new castelated nut from Lang's (which looked perfect, nice clean sharp threads, etc.) would only spin on about a turn and a half, then got VERY hard to turn. I know its the right thread because you can't force a wrongly threaded nut on that big a shaft without a huge cheater, and even then its almost impossible. This nut was going on hard (I'm guessing maybe 60 ft/lbs torque and increasing) and galling the threads on the axle.

At this point I quit and put the old nut back on which spun down with no problems. So....whats going on here? Is the new nut defective in some way? Anyone else experience this problem?

Thanks in advance
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 07:47 pm:

Run a 5/8 ( or is it 3/4?) NF tap through the nut. If thats good, the shaft got beat on with the old nut going on and off enough to wear it in. ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska - Denver Colorado on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 07:53 pm:

Bud,

Pull the wheel back off and check that the axle key did not move in when you put the hub on. Don't ask why I know to check this.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:00 pm:

It does sound like there are a different amount of threads per inch on the nut. (nut and axle are not the same amount of threads per inch) This would result in the nut getting tight in less than two turns. I would think Langs would have send you the right nut, maybe the axle was rethreaded with the wrong die.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:22 pm:

Check the threads of both nuts by running onto bolts of appropriate size and thread. NO vendor can check all parts they sell. And I have bought sealed boxes of nuts or bolts and found both coarse and fine thread inside. I have also had new nuts that the threads were cut under sized and had to have a tap run through them.
Drive carefully and enjoy Christmas! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George - Cherry Hill New Jersey on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:27 pm:

Schuh,

5/8-18 is what it is supposed to be...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack J. Cole on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:28 pm:

Chances are someone rethreaded the axle shaft,perhaps with a metric size,to take care of stripped threads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:40 pm:

Schuh, all nuts and bolts are made with a +or- tolerance. Many times I have run into a problem with new bolts and nuts not fitting well. As was said, try running a tap through the nut and see what happens. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:43 pm:

What kind of nut is on the opposite side? If it is a castelated nut, try it on the side in question. If it goes on without binding, your problem is the nut. If you have the same problem with it, likely with the axle. Then try your new nut on the opposite side. After determining whether it is the axle or the nut wich is the problem, if the nut, replace the nut. If it is the axle, run a die on it to clean up the threads. It is quite possible, that the previous owner had a problem with the nut and that is why it had the wrong nut on it with washers.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 09:29 pm:

Thank for all the good ideas guys. I will report back when I find out whats going on!

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Saturday, December 24, 2011 - 07:10 pm:

I took Norms advice and tried the original castelated nut from the right side on the left axle. Would not fit. I then tried the Lang's castelated nut on the right side - perfect fit - no problems. So the threads on the right axle are original and correct and the left axle threads are the oddball.

There is no question that the left axle threads are the same diameter as the right but the pitch must be slightly different. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can rethread an axel to the same diameter with a different pitch without leaving obvious traces, and yet the threads on the left axel look perfect and original.

So how did this happen? Did ford ever make axles with a different thread? Did aftermarket axles ever come with a different thread?

I forgot to mention this 1915 touring is a southern wide track car.

Merry Christmas or happy Holidays, whichever applys !

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George - Cherry Hill New Jersey on Saturday, December 24, 2011 - 07:25 pm:

Schuh...

My guess is that your left is a replacement axle...and perhaps homemade. They are easy enough to turn and taper out of round stock.

Surprised tho', the taper had to be lathe turned, so why not turn the right thread, but maybe they decided to die roll the end...and just had a 5/8-11, or 5/8 'whatever' hanging around?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, December 24, 2011 - 07:40 pm:

Well, maybe you will need to look for a nut that will fit, or make your own castellated nut out of a regular nut, if that can be done. Anyway, you need to put it tight and keep it from loosening up. I'm not sure that can be done with a cotter pin in it.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack J. Cole on Saturday, December 24, 2011 - 11:06 pm:

Take a die grinder and cut some slots in the nut that fits,then use a washer or 2 to space it out to line up with the cotter pin hole.Like I mentioned,someone may have threaded it metric,they are close in size but not quite the same.I did it on a golf cart axle.The threads were weak.So I rethreaded it with a metric that was allmost the same,just a tad smaller.
Not by much.The correct nut would try to thread but wouldnt have held anything.


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