Need Help in Finding The Youngest TT's That Were Made?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Need Help in Finding The Youngest TT's That Were Made?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 05:33 am:

I'm Still accumulating information the history of the Ton Trucks. Some of you guys I know are still waiting on me but rest assured I am getting closer. After several years of research I think I'm almost done. One thing now is working with copy write laws and negotiating fees for using pictures and such. Another loose end that I'm trying to tie up is that Ford seems to have dropped the ball in finishing up the paperwork when they retired the TT trucks. I have studied materials from the head engineer and it all stops in August 1926.
What I am wondering from you TT owners is, when exactly when were the last trucks built. The last serial # I am working with currently is 135657XX on a Open Cab. Do any of you have a higher number than that?
This is the 26/27 frame number I need, not the Motor number. From what I have seen so far Ford seems to have discontinued the C-Cab at least a year before the Enclosed Cab production ceased. Just to clarify, the numbers I need apply to all the TT's Enclosed, C-Cab, and Chassis made in 1926 and 27.

I am always amazed when it comes to the expertise the members put forth in this forum. Thanks...Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 10:56 am:

I have 14207614. It's a square cab. The numbers match on the frame and engine. I got this one from John Danuser.

I also have another square cab that I think is a 26 because it has brackets for side lights and 3.5x30 front tires and no serial number on the frame. The engine has been replace with an early one - 1922-25. I got it from Stan Howe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 11:45 am:

I just found another frame that is numbered 14847958. It is a frame only.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 12:38 pm:

Fred (Miller),

I'm glad you are working to compile the information on the Ton Trucks. One minor suggestion, you may want to see if there are some dealer shipping or sales information available. The numbers and body styles on the shipping or bill of sale would be another possible source. In that case the engine number would be the same as the number stamped on the frame since they would not have switched out the engine at that early a date.

And your directions to check the frame number rather than the engine number is a good plan, as many of the engines were swapped out over the years. But for that matter some of the bodies were swapped out over the years also. If you have space in your book if you can annotate where the data came from (fossil, bill of sale, shipping document, etc.) that can help folks evaluate how much weight to give to the data. And of course the ideal find is an original truck with the original bill of sale which still has the original body, engine, frame, etc.

For your questions you ask/commented:

“What I am wondering from you TT owners is, exactly when were the last trucks built? The last serial # I am working with currently is 135657XX on an Open Cab. Do any of you have a higher number than that?
This is the 26/27 frame number I need, not the Motor number. From what I have seen so far Ford seems to have discontinued the C-Cab at least a year before the Enclosed Cab production ceased. Just to clarify, the numbers I need apply to all the TT's Enclosed, C-Cab, and Chassis made in 1926 and 27.

“Some additional sources that will probably help you are the Model T Ford Truck Production records. Bruce McCalley in his book (pages 471 for Calendar year 1926 and 473 for Calendar year 1927) and also on his “Model T Comprehensive Encyclopedia” CD available from Bruce [ http://mtfca.com/encyclo/mccalley.htm ] or the vendors.

According to those Production records (and they listed the C cab starting in 1924) listed for calendar year [NOT model year] all of this is for USA production ONLY:

Total C-Cab/open cab Calendar year

173,424 8,397 1926
51,557 91 1927

Note there were also Express Body, Stake Body, Platform Body, Pickup Body, Canopy Top and Screen Side Body numbers listed. I suspect but I do NOT know that some of those could have also been an open cab/C-cab front with the other style rear section. Hopefully someone else can confirm or correct that assumption. Note the listing actually has the numbers broken down by the Branches – for example in 1927 Detroit is listed as producing 9 open cabs while Somerville, MA (replaced Cambridge, MA – across the river) produced the largest number at 57.

The newest C-Cab number you listed above was 135657XX which would have been an Apr 21, 1926 assembled engine if it was assembled at the main River Rouge factory or a slightly later date if it the engine was assembled at one of the branch assembly plants (ref page 534 Bruce’s book also his CD). And for the 1926 calendar year less than 6 percent of all USA TTs were produced in Detroit. So even if the engine was assembled in Detroit it probably was shipped to one of the Assembly Branches and installed in a TT there. Note from the above clearly some C-cabs were listed as assembled (not 1926 produced and sold in 1927 but manufactured in the USA in 1927) in Calendar year 1927. That would mean they have a serial number from at least Nov 1926 which started with 14,472,254 on Nov 1, 1926 or more likely at least since Dec 6 serial number 14,577,136 (the plant was closed Dec 1-6, 1926 ref page 535 McCalley).

Another question to research is when were the C-cabs built in 1927? Would they use up the last of the C-cabs early in 1927 – most of them in Jan? Or did they wait until spring when an open cab would probably sell a little better or even until production for the cars was shut down?

Note on page 536 of Bruce’s book and in the serial number section of his CD under May 1927 he has, “Engine production, for the most part listed as “truck” continued through the year [1927]. Ford branches apparently continued assembling cars until stocks of parts were depleted.” He notes that 69,198 Model T engines were produced between May and Dec 1927. I would speculate (guess) that a TT probably has the highest engine number/serial number and probably a chassis that was sold.

On page 65 of “Ford Trucks Since 1905” by James K. Wagner, he states, “ Since the Model TT truck was still enjoying adequate customer acceptance, compared to the passenger car, it continued to be built during the summer of 1927.”

Please keep up updated about your book.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steamboat on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 12:43 pm:

The serial number on my engine is 15083872, which is the vin on the title. I havent been able to find any numbers on the chassis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way . Wa. on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 01:42 pm:

Hap
Are there any records from the Ford Factor
that were group sales of cars to say the Snowmobile Co. for conversion to Snowmobiles. I think that special orders may have accurred, ie
with no fenders, running boards,or turtle decks.
Also there were narrowed rear axel assemblys that were 44" width and 38' width used on them.
I have not found any information on where the narrowed parts were supplied from.The snowmobiles
sales arrangements were listed as sold only through authorized Ford dealerships.
Has anyone in there research in the Ford archives found any thing on this subject. The years would have been 1915 to 1927 this would also include the Snow Flyer Co. and F-S Mfg.Co
producing the Snow Bird units ( 1921 to 1927 )
Thank you for any information that might have been found that would relate to this subject.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 01:42 pm:

Fred ; A friend of me have a TT with engine # 15152326 .His dad bought that TT chassis in march 1929 , he still have the Bill of sale .That engine # is from febr. 1929 I think.
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 03:13 pm:

Here is a picture of that TT
ZZ
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 03:16 pm:

Try again
ZZ
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez - Templeton, CA on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 03:18 pm:

My TT was originally titled in 1930 (I had the title which DMV took from me) and the sales receipt which said "New Ford truck" which was dated 1929 from Ellsworth Harrold Ford, Paso Robles, Ca. Which I sold with the truck in 1976.

The truck had a 1922 chassis, Engine # 6231534, with 32X4.5 rear wheels, but a tall radiator and a closed cab. I always assumed it was a dealer built truck, built from a new left over chassis fitted with a later style cab and radiator. It had electric start, rocky mountain brakes and an auxiliary transmission.

I'd guess this was fairly common practice in the day as dealers stocked chassis only trucks for customer special use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez - Templeton, CA on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 03:21 pm:

Oh Yes here's a picture of that truck...


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