Fordor - Rear Seat Wood Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Fordor - Rear Seat Wood Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom J. Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 09:02 am:

I'm still working on the inside wood on my 26 Fordor. I can't figure out the wood frame that is used under the seat springs.

I've been to the Benson archives and got the print and I can't see how this one part can be used on two different size springs. According to the entry in the parts manual, the Fordor used the same wood frame on the backrest and the rear cushion. Am I reading this correctly? Have any others of you with Fordors noticed if the wood portion is the same for both seat pieces? If it is the same, do the large round holes in the wood go up or down when this piece is used as a backrest? Does the backrest wood fasten or clip to anything in the body?




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George - Cherry Hill New Jersey on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 11:40 am:

Tom,

I don't have a ready answer for you and would hope someone who has one readily available can answer your question.

Should you not get a reply, get back to me next week (as I'll forget) as I do have a very late 25 Fordor disassembled and with 30 minutes of 'digging' can probaly document whatever you want. I took the Fordor body off and apart maybe 15 years ago or so and never did anything with it as the tin was too flawless and perfect to get rid of...figured I'd get around to building another Fordor sometime in the future...the mind may be cloudy...but I do think the seat back was held in place with vertical straps that clipped at the top of the body frame, and then attached at the bottom.

Like I said, if no one else comes through...I'd be happy to dig for you and take some pix, but it would have to be next week sometime before I got to it, and also with OK weather to move 2 T's out that are in front of it :-) (Gives me an excuse, ya' know? :-) :-) )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 03:05 pm:

Tom,
Here is a partial shot of the backrest of my 1924 Fordor seat.
There is certainly a difference in the two parts on my car.
A lot of the parts carried over from the earlier Fordor's.

If you require more detail I can pull the rear seat and backrest and take some better pictures. Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen Heatherly on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 04:12 pm:

On our 26 fordor the back and cushion wood frames are different. In the back of the body there is a large curved wood brace with a metal bracket attached to it. On the back of the seat back there is a metal tab that slides into this bracket, the seat is then attaced at the bottom with three wood screws.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom J. Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 04:50 pm:

Thanks George, John, and Stephen

Here's the rear of my Fordor body. The center wood stringer doesn't have a bracket but there are two steel brackets low on the vertical seams (red arrow). From what John is saying and showing in his photo, it looks like I need to find or make a bracket for the center vertical stringer. In regards to Stephen's comment, it sounds like I need some kind of bracket where the yellow arrow is.



The print I obtained from the Benson Ford library looks a lot like the bottom cushion frame with the exception of the three vertical pieces.

I bought this car close to 20 years ago after the previous owner gave up on making the wood kit fit. The front of the car reminds me of a 25 Coupe I had years ago and was no problem making everything fit. It's this rear portion that's proving to be a challenge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George - Cherry Hill New Jersey on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 05:53 pm:

Tom,

Seriously, I don't mind digging if you can wait the week for me to get 'round-to-it. My body tub is there in an inside place, all of the wood and tin were still near mint when it came apart, and it has been stored high and dry ever since.

Think of where you might want pix and let me know...and once dug out, I'll shoot off what you may need as far as pictures, because once I'm done, I have to go any bury it again. (Somehow having 2 running T's and a 3rd work in process plus the missus daily driver in a true 2.5 car garage makes things a bit dicey and the Fordor is the one that gets trapped in the corner BEHIND the workbench :-) ). As I said, mine is a very, very late '25.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom J. Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 06:49 pm:

George,

Thanks for your kind offer and I would like to keep you in mind as a last resort. I too have stuff stashed around the garage and I know it's not as easy as it sounds when it comes time to dig things up. My son is fond of showing people his smashed fingernail from when the ladder slipped while he was handing me some parts two months ago.

I'm still hoping someone on the forum will say they ran into this issue last week and here's the photos.

Tom


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 07:12 pm:

Tom,
I have just taken a few photos of that area of our Fordor.

I will download them to my computer and post them here as soon as I can. Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen Heatherly on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 07:15 pm:

I believe the bracket is supposed to be mounted in the center of the brace but I may be wrong. Thats how it was done in coupes though.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George - Cherry Hill New Jersey on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 07:24 pm:

ladder...parts...:-) :-) :-)...???

Now I'll share with you...after the 3rd T showed up and the cars took to being mounted on those roller skate things the missus was impressed that two deep would actually 'fit' along one side of the garage until she looked closer.

"Sell some parts when you bought this last?" as the Fordor had lost its wheels, fenders, radiator, running boards, hood and doors in the re-arrange process. "Nope!" was my reply...

"Well then, where are they?" and as I looked up at the hole from the garage into the end wall of the attic space of the laundry room she added, "You didn't!" That was met with a return smile from me...I probably would have gotten away with it easily, except the oldest son had also dropped off a contractor/industrial wet saw system with a nice table/gauge setup...it goes about 250 pounds, and HE had also stuffed it in the opening I cut!

So actually, getting to the Fordor 'tub' isn't that tough...and like I said it is also motivation to slide some others out on the skates and let them see pavement for a bit. :-)

Actually, I also DID just run into exactly what you are looking for just a few weeks ago...local guy, car complete in shell, Cartouche kit in a box...was I interested in finishing it for him? I said nope and put him in contact with a local guy that does great work. Car all done now...looks great inside...but I didn't think to take pictures as I already had one :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 08:18 pm:

Tom,
I will spread these photos over a couple of postings. They don't seem to wont to load even though I have resized them.

Your vertical rib is certainly different to the three I have on our car.


Here is a close up taken from the Body Parts Book.


The vertical ribs have a step in them. The seat frame Backrest sits on the step and is screwed to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 08:29 pm:

A few more. Let me know if you need more details. Regards, John

Back view of backrest cushion.



Front view of back rest cushion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Sumner on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 08:31 pm:

Tom, here is a picture of the wood seat frame. Disreguard the oval rear window as I installed a c door rear roof panel on my limo. Les Sumner4 door rear seat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 08:37 pm:

These are the Male and Female brackets that hold the top of the Backrest cushion.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 10:27 pm:

Tom,
I am fairly certain that the seat back frame for mounting the springs and the upholstery are the same as the earlier Closed Cars.

Here is a link to an inquiry that Dave S made earlier this year. The Picture of the frame is how I remember mine to be before I upholstered it. Regards, John

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/240928.html?1318563233

Here is the comparison of Dave's and Mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 12:06 am:

Tom.
I have done a little more digging , and I am almost convinced that by the time that the 26-27 Fordor Sedans came along some of the wood framing had been eliminated. One area that I think could be the area you are trying to get some information on.

The pieces I have been calling vertical ribs , are according to the Body Parts Book called Strainers ( back panel ) lower -R.H. , L.H. , and center. This is for the 1923-25 years only. It changes for the 1926-27 years.

Scan of the whole frame for 1923-25 Fordor




1923-25 Parts List



1926-27 Parts List



The Strainer's for the 1926-27 have completely different numbering. I think you might be on the right track with the two metal brackets you have on your car. Because the back panel on your car is bolted to the lower quarter panels I don't think the three Strainer pieces are required on your car. On the earlier cars these panels are nailed to the Strainers. I apologize if I have led you on a side track to the issue at hand. Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 12:17 am:

Just one last piece of information that may help.

Tom, You will probably remember Ray Elkins postings back a couple of years ago when he was restoring a 26-27 Fordor. Here is a picture he posted early in the restoration.
.
Very best regards, John

Note the center Strainer



And a link to some of the excellent work he was doing.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/87573.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen Heatherly on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 12:33 am:

You are correct in saying that the 26 fordors have two less ribs in the back of the body. The 23-25 fordors have three while the 26/27 only have one in the center.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 01:33 am:

Thank you Stephen for clarifying that. Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom J. Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 09:19 am:

Thanks everyone for you help. I think I'm good now.

Les Sumner sent me photos of the inside rear of his car with measurements for the steel brackets at the top of the rear cushion.

Jim Patrick sent some detailed photos showing the lower seat frame and the attaching points. I am missing a substantial piece of wood mounting bracket for the middle vertical stringer which I should be able to saw up with no problem.

George, I think this means you don't have to go digging. Thanks for your kind offer to do so.

With Jim's and Les's detailed photos, I am now convinced that the Fordor parts catalog is in error when it says the wood frame is the same for cushion and backrest. I am now looking into the 16620 part number used on the Tudor backrest since the Tudor uses the same rear cushion wood according to the parts book. There may be enough similar in the back of both bodies where Ford was able to standardize the back seat.

The good news is that I believe that I have enough information to get this car back together. Thank you again to everyone for their replies.


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