Firestone demountable rim needed for 30 x 3 1/2

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Firestone demountable rim needed for 30 x 3 1/2
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Tuesday, January 03, 2012 - 10:19 pm:

I need one spare for my 1917. There are a few firestone rims that could interchange with what I have. msphilpott@tnet.biz.net
thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Wednesday, January 04, 2012 - 03:11 pm:

Mike,

I've lost track of who has asked a similar question in the past. If this is a repeat posting I apologize. But recommend you check your current wheels to ensure you have the proper rims on the compatible felloes. Just because they will bolt on does not necessarily mean they fit correctly. (There are many 30 x 3 1/2 clincher and non-clincher loose lug and fixed lug rims that do NOT safely interchange while some of them interchange ok). If you have a set that fit properly -- then you have a guide of what you want others to look for.

I.e. are your Firestone rims held onto the felloe by a metal ring that is held in place by 5 removable lugs as shown in the advertisement you posted above and similar to the ones shown below:



Or do they look more like the Firestones in the Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia below?



Or the Firestone advertisement below (which may be a 4 lug but it might or might not work?)



If you can post some photos and measurements it will make it easier to match the proper rim. Note there may be some non-Firestone rims that will work well. For example in the 1970s the Ford wheel and the Mopar wheel were the same basic size and lug pattern. But one of them had an extra hole which meant it would work on either car but the other did not have that hole and it would only fit the original car. (No I don't remember which was which anymore).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Wednesday, January 04, 2012 - 06:46 pm:

Here is a picture of various Firestone wheels and rims, and mine isn't even listed but yet is more like type "B" but I don't have a part "C" on mine. the channel inside the rim is 1" wide. I couldn't put both pictures up at the same time so the next message will have a picture of mine. Yes, I put this up a couple of weeks ago and for the most part I just got scam and adds for stuff that I won't even pass on to anyone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Wednesday, January 04, 2012 - 07:07 pm:

I've cropped and worked on the picture only for it not to load. I'll work on it some more.
thanks, Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Wednesday, January 04, 2012 - 10:00 pm:

Mike, Email Sent

I've got a wheel @ work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Thursday, January 05, 2012 - 12:02 am:

Thanks Mike, I called this afternoon and your coworker said you had a headache and had to go home for the day, HAHAHA. Just kidding to the guy that has a rim for me. I'll call in the morning.
thanks, Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Thursday, January 05, 2012 - 02:38 pm:

Hap, If you look at the drawings for each different rim, what remains the same is the item "G" which is the part that each different style rim sits on. Therefore the rims are some what interchangeable one to the other. As long as the tires look the same then using a different Firestone rim for a spare which is under a cover OK because they all take the same clamp ring and 5 lugs to put the spare on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Thursday, January 05, 2012 - 07:14 pm:

Mike,

Yes I see the part G in the diagrams and you could easily be correct. I have not had the pleasure of actually looking at any of the Firestone style 5 lug or 4 lug rims and felloes. I hope to obtain additional information about them from folks like yourself that have those style wheels and rims. I would welcome any photos, information, etc. that you have.

But from the research on wheel rims and felloes supplied by Ford, it is clear that while all the demountable clincher rims originally supplied with Ford Model Ts were 30 x 3 1/2 they do not all interchange. In fact Ford specifically warned not to interchange the loose lug Kelsey with the fixed lug Hayes in the May 15, 1920 Service Bulletin shown below:



And even in the cases above it appears from several folks that have successfully driven their Fords with the Hayes fixed lug rim on the Kelsey felloe (modify the felloe so the Hayes lugs have a recess to fit into) that it can be done ok. I have not heard of anyone trying the loose lug Kelsey on the Hayes rim -- I would guess that would not work very well. I would still like to hear from more folks on what combinations they have tried and how it worked.

And in the case of the three different loose lug style rims originally supplied with new Fords they might all fit onto a Kelsey felloe, but the Cleveland and Firestone style would rotate if mounted on the back wheels and cut the valve stems. The Cleveland and Firestone lose lug rims originally supplied with new Fords apparently have a male locating lug at the valve stem that mates with a female lug in the felloe.

So during the ten plus years that Firestone offered the accessory demountable rims and felloes I do not know if they all, or most, or only some safely interchange or not. So I would recommend that you double check the fit and function before you drive on them. I would love to help document what you and others know and discover about those felloes and rims.

There is always more to discover.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 01:04 am:

Hap I'll try and convert my pictures so that I can upload them to this thread. Your right about the "loose lug Kelsey with the fixed lug Hayes" but they were two different companies. Right now I'm just glad that Mike Robinson found the rim and he has some of the other parts I need as well.
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 06:29 am:

Mike,

That would be great if you could post some photos of the felloe, rim, how they attach or which ever photos you have. If you can place a ruler or tape measure etc. in the photos it helps give folks a feeling for the size. If you are not able to resize them easily -- if you send them my way, I'll gladly do that and post them. And even if you do resize them for posting if you could please send me some of the larger file/higher resolution photos sometimes they come in very handy for describing something. And if you find the Firestone logo on parts (often on the inside of the rim) please take a photo of that also.

I'm glad that you we able to locate what you needed.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 06:31 am:

Sorry I forgot to mention -- if you click on my name at the top of any post it brings up my profile and my e-mail address is listed on the third line down. ... Hap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" Harold Tucker on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 09:59 pm:

Mike kindly sent me some additional photo of his 5 lug accessory Firestone wheels and rims. Looking at the photos it makes the illustration in the advertisement that was posted earlier in this thread make a lot more sense. Below is a photo of his 1917 Milk Truck with the accessory demountable wheels.



And below is a zoomed in photo of his right front wheel with the rim and tire mounted:



Below is the left front wheel with the rim and tire removed. Note the metal next to each lug bolt that one side of the removable lug pressed up against. Thanks to Mike for adding the words to the photos -- I only resized them.



Below is a closer look at the removable lug the Firestone accessory wheel and rim uses:



That lug is also shown above in the catalog illustration that Mike provided.



If anyone has a couple of photos we could add from different sides/angles and especially if they can add a ruler or quarter or something to help judge the size if someone is at a swap meet etc. that would be great.

Below is a photo from the side of the rim showing the valve stem and the lug that is near it that keeps the rim from slipping on the wheel.



And a look at the same area from a different angle is shown below:



Below is a photo of that same area which Layden Butler provide previously and which now makes much more sense to me after seeing the other photos.



Below is the same area but with the tape measure across the rim so you can see the space between the two channels or wedged solid flange etc. He states it is a 1 inch and there is a little gap between the tape measure and the edge of the flange.



The photo below shows the shape of the channels and the shows the ring that fits on the outside of the clincher rim and is compressed up against the rim by the lugs when they are tightened down.



Below shows the wedge shape of the removable ring:



NOTE - this is NOT like the snap ring on the split rim truck tires that can fly off and injure or kill you when the tire is inflated. If you inflate the clincher until it blows up the ring does not move -- as NO air pressure is pushing against that ring.

Below is a photo where Mike is showing that it is 24 inches from the top of the clincher bead to the same location on the other side of the rim.



Below is a drawing showing that the inside of the 30 x 3 1/2 rim would be approximately 23 inches while the outside that Mike measured is 24 inches (approximately 1/2 inch on each side for the clincher roll). (That does not include the channels on the Firestone 5 lug demountable accessory rim -- but is for where the rim is not raised.



A big thank you to Mike for taking time to send those photos. And if anyone has some additional photos from different angles for the removable lugs please let us know. I also have some photos (sorry -- not sure where they came from) that show a different style lug with the Firestone on it. Does anyone know if the lug style changed some during the production? Also a photo of the lug nut would be appreciated.

Respectfully submitted for Mike

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Philpott on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 11:38 pm:

Hap, you did a great job. I will send you the other pictures tomorrow and I think they might solve a few other questions.
thanks, Mike


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