Is this an early Model T speedometer?
Orlando
1915 for sure.
No view of the face, but this looks like a match . . .
Thomas Donald Adair
Boston, Massachusetts
Assignor to Standard Thermometer Co.
Portland, Maine
Speedometer
Patent number: 1161757
Filing date: Jan 4, 1915
Issue date: Nov 23, 1915
http://tinyurl.com/6p8uo2d
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6p8uo2d
Regards
Art
I am amazed at how un-rare that particular 1915 speedometer, the Standard, is. I bought one at a flea market in 1967, thinking it was the only one I'd ever run across, but since then I have seen them all over the place.
Most of the Model Ts, including the 1915s, were junked as the design became obsolete and, of course, during the scrap drives in WWII. But, near as I can tell, before they sent the dear old Ford off to be melted, every owner unscrewed the Speedometer and put it away. The speedo was a compact, high-tech item; interesting for its many moving parts, like a watch.
Nobody threw away the tools, either.
Jim
But they didn't think to save the drive components...
Jem,
Apparently they did not. With its wide-open gear system near the ground and its fairly fragile cable, I would speculate that the Model T speedometer drive was the first thing to fail and be tossed away. A single thrown pebble caught in the pinion would do it. I sometimes see a car that once had a speedo, with screw holes in the dash and a ring gear on the right front wheel being the only remains.
Jim
Of all the Ford Specials for 1915, the Standard is the worst. They were of poor quality from what I've seen.
Larry,
The weakness of the Standard was the pot metal frame. The frame can literally crumble apart for no apparent reason. However, I've seen 90-year-old Standards working perfectly.
The mechanism is interesting. If I remember correctly, it does not use the aluminum cup in a spinning magnet. It uses a off-axis flywheel. At rest the flywheel is cocked at an angle on the shaft. When spun, it tries to right itself and fly straight. Ambitious, but too many moving parts.
Jim
Jim,
The operating system for most speedometers in 1915 was the "centrifugal" weight principle. Weights spun on a shaft and as the shaft turned faster, the centrifugal weight expanded outward moving the needle. Only Stewart Warner, and later AC, had used the magnetic principle.
Larry is correct in that most Standard speedometers built around 1915 were of poor quality, and the reason was the white metal (pot metal) that was used by Standard. Most speedometer companies used white metal because it was easy and cheap to cast into intricate parts. Early Standard units, built from 1909-1911 are very good units and contain very little pot metal, BUT these were never used on a Model T.
Hope this helps,
Russ Furstnow
Russ,
I think it might be unfair to call them poor quality. If the pot metal parts were usable to the end of a reasonable life time of the 1915 Model T, and then most of them failed in the remaining years, then they were designed pretty good. There was no reason to design them with a 100 year life cycle, when the Model T was only good for 10.
William, I have had a chance to compare many types of speedometers over the years, and some speedometers were made like fine watches (Jones and Warner) and some have pot metal that is still perfect today (Johns-Manville and Stewart). As we try to restore these things, people on this forum like to know what speedometer manufacturer produced a quality product that can be used today, and that is the reason for the Standard's "poor" rating.
I see many speedometers for sale on ebay, at swap meets and in antique shops, and if I was looking to purchase a speedometer for my car, I would like to have this information. I do agree that no speedometer manufacturer expected their speedometer to last 100 years, BUT many speedometers have.
Just my thoughts,\
Russ Furstnow,
When Russ Furstnow talks speedometers, we listen. Thank you, Russ, for throwing your learned observations into this and other threads.
Jim
Thanks Again Russ!
Russ,
One reason I had put down my answer was because I had just read the wikipedia article about planned obsolesce, and found out that some products today, like rechargeable batteries, and printer cartridges, have little chips in them that make them stop working. A company that used pot metal that didn't last sounds better than knowing my $45 camera battery would work just fine, if the company that sold it to me didn't sabotage it on purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
Are there any technical hindrances involved with installing a "Ford Special" setup with a checked and functioning Standard head (like the one on top of this page) + all the rest that you can buy from new, in a 1926 model with original wheels for 21 inch tyres?
The repro parts for a 1926 speedometer fit a Stewart Warner speedometer. The drive ratio is entirely different than the Ford Special setups, so the short answer is that the 1926 parts and the Ford Special parts are not interchangeable. Sorry
Russ Furstnow
You can use a Ford Special unit on a 1926. You just need to use the Ford Special drive components. All of them are available in reproduction from any of the T vendors.
Thanks for response. - I have decided to try to improve my knowledge on this subject by buying Russ's book if it is still available for online order where? - Niels
Niels, You can order one from me. They are $25. plus $5 for USPS priority shipping. Just send a check to Russ Furstnow, 3545 W. Kiltie Loop, Flagstaff, AZ 86001.
Thanks Russ
Several years ago,I had heard that Russ made quality leather items for Model T's.I called him and ordered all the leather for my 11 Torpedo.I also asked him if he knew anyone who might have the correct round dial face speedo for the same car. He replied I have one here on the shelf! Man, was i excited to find that speedo, When it arrived at my home, there was also a hard to find bracket to mount it on the dash.Can't be beat.
This is the speedometer I thought of installing in my 1926 model T with woodenspoked wheels taking 21" tyres.
The exterior looks to be identical to the one on top of this page. - Comparing the faces, however, disclose some differences:
1.: The winged pyramid badge does not have the text: "The Universal Car".
2.: The lowermost text (below the factory name) states:"Patented July 30, 1909. Others Pending".
I cannot clearly read the same text on the other face, but as far as I can judge, it does not say "Others Pending", but states some numbers.
3.: Obviously it counts km, which implies, that the pointer travels longer round the dial (from southeast to southwest), whereas on the mile one it travels only from east to west.
One curiosity is, that it does not measure speeds below 10 kmh.
Do this facts tell anything about the age of the speedometer and the drive ratio. - In other words is this a "Ford Special" component, or is it something else?
There is one part missing: the actuating or transmission key and its bushing. - Can anyone supply this item?
Neils, Your speedometer is the "early" version of the Standard Ford Special speedometer. It measures in MPH not KPH. All centrifugal speedometers did not record speed until around 5-10 mph, hence the dial reading that begins at 10 mph. Finally, your speedometer has no input shaft, which probably indicates the unit has some internal problems. This shaft cannot be removed without taking the unit apart. My recommendation is to get another speedometer which will work, and one that is more "period correct" for your T.
Hope this helps,
Russ Furstnow
Russ, - Thanks for your insight. - The meter goes on the shelf labeled: "Stuff for Decoration Only", and the T and I will scramble happily along without, as we have done for the last 50 years. - Regards Niels