Strange engine knock

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Strange engine knock
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Thursday, April 05, 2012 - 08:15 pm:

Well the day came that I had to find the knock. Out came the engine, took it apart. Took the pistons and rods to a shop. The second piston and rod check had a loose pin. This was an engine the was purchased from out of state and had maybe 20 mile on it. The strange thing is the engine had the knock from the very beginning. Now all the rods and pins will be checked for warpage.
I could not find the thread about the knock so I had to start a new, sorry if I bored you with my problem. I thought I had better find the problem before I end up with a boat anchor motor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Thursday, April 05, 2012 - 08:18 pm:

One Item I forgot to mention is 'THANK YOU ALL FOR THE POST THAT i READ" about engine knock and that meade me go further than I had ever been.
Thank you for all the info


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Thursday, April 05, 2012 - 08:21 pm:

Bill, I hope that has it fixed for you. Let us know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 01:27 am:

Well the engine knock may have been found!
Taking the pistons with connecting rods a Shop Foreman found a bad Wrist pin. This is with a motor that was poured and bored, all new parts, with about 30 miles. The binding bold had bad threads and pin. I took a set of pins >005 over and new bolts so will know in a few days what the outcome will be.
Thanks to the "Forum" for a lot of feedback as to the possibility of what it might be. The major part of the Forum lead to wrist pins or pistons.

Thanks again

bill D


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 05:12 am:

What kind of new bolts? I have never had a problem with original wrist-pin bolts. But one engine I had had grade eight modern bolts in it. Two of the four grade eight bolts stripped their threads off resulting in wrist-pin knocks. I replaced all four with original bolts and never had a problem again.
Just my experience.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 10:15 am:

You have to be very careful with modern grade 8 bolts, if you buy them at your local hardware store. Most of the bolts sold in the US now are made in China, the way the Chinese make a grade 8 bolt is by putting the grade 8 marks on the head. There is no control on the quality of Chinese made hardware, and even grade 5 bolts may be soft. But do not assume that it is OK to use the less expensive bolts if you need a soft bolt, as sometimes the Chinese bolt are very brittle.
I learned this the hard way, when repairing farm equipment, I replaced a bearing in a roller harrow, the bolts were a bit rusty, so I put new bolts in, the next day the bolts broke, requiring a half day repair, new bolts again and a few hours later, the same thing. I went to the trash and dug out the old bolts and did not have another problem. I then went through my bolt supply and scrapped a lot of them and found a supplier that sold American made bolts, the savings of chain hardware store bolts are not worth the cost.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 10:58 am:

The bolts that I replaced are model T wrist pin bolts, not some hardware store kind . These came from Mac"s in New York since I could not find them anywhere here in Redding Ca. None of the "T" guys had any in there stash of bolts. One of the bolts had bad threads and we would not take the chance of re-installing the engine with out new bolts, as a pre-caution of problems down the road. Oh, one fellow said to get some grade #10, but I wondered if they would be to hard to drill the head for wiring?

Bill d


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 11:05 am:

Wayne: The problem was a knock, and it turned out to be a wrist pin and bolt. Luckily No damage had occurred as I was afraid to drive it very far and only once in a while. The engine was supposed to have been totally rebuilt. I will have the proof in a few days.



Boy that spell check is great


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 06:42 pm:

What the heck is a grade 10 cap screw?
There is a grade 10.9 in metric but not in the English Standard.
It's a Model T with 5 hp per cylinder......not a 500 hp hemi.
Grade 8's are hard enough to drill but drillable.....run the drill press slow or all you'll do is burn up the bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 03:58 am:

Craig, Lawson Products used to have a bolt they called the TRU TORK, or something similar. They were an extremely high tensile bolt, their next step above a grade eight, I guess you could call them a grade ten. We used a few at the lead recycling plant where I used to work. We found that they couldn't be used on anything with high heat involved, they were so hard, the heads would pop off because the bolts wouldn't stretch and expand. We ran into that problem several times. A lower grade bolt would fix the problem. I agree, not too many places in a T that would benefit from hardware that tuff. A lot of places could use fasteners a bit tougher than stock, but that's about all. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 11:22 am:

Way back when, I was changing out a Dodge Taxi Cab engine and putting it in my 1940 Plymouth. I had to change the Flywheel because the Dodge had fluid drive. The fellow at the car wrecking place where I traded in my Plymouth engine for the Dodge engine told me to go to the dealer and get some special flywheel bolts. I suppose they were grade eight but I don't remember. They were a flat black color.

I paid $100 exchange for a one year old Dodge Taxi Cab engine and gave the delivery guy the $3 he asked for to pull my engine and put the Dodge engine in. He waited while I changed the flywheel over. He provided the necessary tools. Try that one today. He delivered it with a Military Dodge Power wagon still painted olive drab with the stars painted out in black. It had a built in beam mounted on arches so he could pull and install engines with its chain-fall block and tackle and run them out over the back of the truck so as to get to the engine compartment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 11:28 am:

Back in the 70s/80s we had a problem with bogus grade eight and five fasteners being supplied to military contractors. Got to the point where we had to take samples from the contractor's stock and send to independent labs for verification. There were fatalities due to failures in military equipment because of fraudulent grading of fasteners by suppliers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 10:47 pm:

bump
Well I finally got the engine ready to go back in the frame and hopefully running by the weekend. I am just waiting to hear it run again. Will post the results.

Bill D


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 01:36 pm:

I await the results!
Your almost neighbor.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 01:48 pm:

Well the engine is in and run briefly and NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOO knock that I can hear. Just an oil leak that I have to find and take care of. Have to check the HI-Nuet-low and clutch.


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