Anderson Timer Problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Anderson Timer Problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 09:13 am:

I just tried to install a new repro Anderson timer on my ’27. The slot on the brush is not quite deep enough to allow the pin to go through the hole in the cam shaft. I have a dozen or so old timers including 2 old repro Andersons and all of these brushes will fit on my car. Has anyone had this problem and how was it solved?

I have been thinking of trying to lengthen the slot. It almost fits and wouldn’t need much enlarging but the steel is really hard and I don’t think I have any tools handy to do this. I also thought about fitting a used brush but the ones I have are quite worn.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks, Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 09:27 am:

I believe that the makers of the Anderson will supply what you need for this. Contact them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 09:55 am:

What? No Dremmel? The new Anderson timer guy who took it over from Frank is "tiptoptimers.com". If he's as good as Frank, you'll be running in 2 shakes of a lambs tail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 01:37 pm:

The roller on our N aftermarket timer had the same problem. A little "dremmel" work fixed the problem. Probably better to start too snug as opposed to fitting too loose.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 07:12 pm:

Thanks to all of you, I have a Dremel but didn't have a narrow (1/8 inch) stone so I ground off a little of the back of the brush and it is working fine. I did have an additional problem with the timing. When #1 is set to just after TDC, the timing rod and lever on the repro Anderson timer hits the fan belt. I needed to retard the timer (bend the rod) a little more than I would like. I've been working on a couple of other old Fords using repro and foreign made parts and am getting frustrated at times. At least we can get these parts when nothing else is readily available. I didn't call the new owner/maker of the timers as I'm not sure when and by whom this timer was manufactured.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Hutchinson on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 12:08 pm:

I appreciate all of the feedback. I am not sure why you are having a problem with the fan belt issue. I will say you are the third person to voice this concern. We have not changed the hole locations nor the stationary contact lengths and there are thousands of these timers in service. Changing pulleys could have an affect etc. etc.

The slot issue I'm sure is simply a manufacturing problem that I will look into. Thankfully it is a quick fix.

Since my goal is to provide a trouble free product, so people can enjoy their T's and not spend all day under the hood (unless that is how you enjoy your T.) I would be willing to work with anyone who has an issue with our product.

Please give me a call or e-mail at any time. hutch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kirk Peterson on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

I want to commend Hutch's customer service.
He has called me to verify my online order.
He has emailed me several times to answer my questions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 12:55 pm:

Sometimes the belt length or set of the fan pulley on the bracket arm is an issue. And the correct length and bend of the timer rod too. All these can add up to the timer rod fitting hitting the fan belt. You just have to check thru all the possible causes.



Full advance, lever all the way down. Anderson timer, '23.



Full retard, lever all the way up.

Assembly done with correct fan pulley arm, new alum sealed bearing fan pulley, new alum crank pulley, and timer rod for pre-'26 engine. The Improved Car uses a different timer rod.

That is an original case Anderson (ANCO) restored by TipTop with new rotor too.


Full advance with lever all the way down


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 04:58 pm:

Dan has it right. Your fan belt is too long if your timer rod hits it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 02:42 pm:

Thanks for all of your helpful answers. Extra thanks to Dan for the pictures. I'm hoping that I can get the eccentric on the fan pulley unfrozen so perhaps I can move it enough to solve the problem. I hope to salvage the serpentine belt I'm using as I'm very satisfied with it's service.

I had to leave for a funeral in Houston this morning and won't be able to get back to the car until later next week as my wife and I have medical appointments here too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 09:24 am:

I just got back to the car. Thanks again for your help. I talked to Hutch and he has been most helpful with several options and promised more help if needed.

The 32 inch serpentine belt was much to tight but I was using one of the modern ball bearing fan pulleys. I replaced this with an old original type as the diameter is just a little smaller. This helped a bit but it was still necessary to remove the bracket/water manifold in order to remove or install the belt. I had to do this anyway in order to get the eccentric unfrozen. It was frozen at the most relaxed (low) position. I bought a 33 inch belt, same brand/type and it is too loose except at the tightest (high) location. Strangely when I turn the 32 inch belt inside out (smooth side riding on the pulleys) it fits as I feel it should. It rides correctly(not too loose, not too tight) at the mid position of the eccentric which moves the belt to the furthest point (driver side) from the timer cover handle.

Looking at Dan's photos (thanks Dan), I see that I need a new timer rod. His looks like the one on my '22 but the one on the '27 has been bent too many times. I'll try to pick up a new one next week. As we're heading out soon (for about four months), I want to get this thing going before I leave. I want this old clunker ready for the Texas T-Party tour in October.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 10:02 am:

The 26-27 timing rods'fan combine are just a PITA even on a good day...lol.

Error I found on one recently on someone elses 27...because of the fan pulley being eccentric...leaning towards 11 o'clock in the setting you will never have timer belt clearance that is safe enought...move the eccentric to the 1 o'clock side and it works which is where it belonged in the first place!

Yeah...the shortest belt you can get away with helps too...on my one '27 chassis under the hack, and since everything else I own or have owned does NOT have the eccentric, and no matter what I did the cotter pin was just too close for my comfort...there is a small stock sperpentine ribbed belt, maybe 7/8 wide that allows all the clearance in the world for any timer...and tracks real good at the same time :-):-):-) Don't know the model no. as it wore off...I just took a regular belt in, said what do you have in a serpentine...and that was that story :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 10:58 am:

Robert,
Even with the right size belt and the eccentric on the drivers side and a near TDC timing the belt will be close to the belt. With Hutch's help, this completely solved the common problem.





More pics at:
http://www.pbase.com/jimthode/timer_belt_rubbing

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 11:01 am:

Thanks George, I feel better hearing that someone else shares my problem. Right now the 32 inch serpentine belt is fairly relaxed with the eccentric at the 9 o'clock position. I think I'll put the modern ball bearing pulley back on and move the eccentric further toward 11 o'clock. This serpentine belt may be the same as the one you mentioned as it is a little narrower than the other old belts I have. I can't get to the car right now and I hope to pick up a new timing rod next week.

PS: I worked for Prudential in Houston for nearly 33 years (1952-1984). Was born in NJ and lived there until I graduated from Bloomfield High, class of '52. Pru sent me to NJ often, (Newark, Cherry Hill, Roseland).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 11:07 am:

Thanks Jim. Hutch said he could modify my timer if need be (good guy). I'll only resort to that if I can't get this fixed with a new timer rod and the above mentioned adjustment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 11:21 am:


Belt position can be important.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 12:45 pm:

Now THAT'S funny !!

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 03:40 pm:

Other than the difference of color is there any other way to tell an origonal new day from a reproduction?

Stephen


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