Front wheels madly shaking at low speeds!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Front wheels madly shaking at low speeds!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 11:24 am:

Greetings from Khartoum, Sudan.

A new problem has turned up recently.

ONLY at low speed, and ESPECIALLY in low gear going up or down a hill, the front wheels together with the steering wheel start shaking madly side to side.

It doesn't happen all the time but it seems to be happening more and more often. If I increase speed or turn the steering wheel sharply it seems to help stop it. Any ideas?

Constantine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 11:33 am:

Worn spindle bushings

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard D. Dennis on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 11:38 am:

Constantine, This is going to take some searching on your part as it it could be SO many different things, loose wheel or bearings, king pins, spring shackles, spring mounts, tie rods or steering arms and even the wishbone mounts. Basically anything from the steering wheel all the way out to the front hubs.

Howard Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 11:41 am:

Constantine,
It could be a number of things and it would be foolish to suggest that you only inspect one thing. You will likely need to inspect EVERY component in your front end for looseness, alignment and balance.

These threads will give you some ideas:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/263206.html?1327953732

And:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/238063.html?1317223103

Good luck and let us know what you find after a closer inspection.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 11:46 am:

Constantine:

Since you've been on the "road trip" with no other related steering problems...
Remove the cotter pin from the lower spindle nut & tighten to take up the play, shouldn't be more than 1 turn tight, re-cotter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 12:17 pm:

I do have one problem with the steering that I know of. The spindle arm bushing (for the tie rod bolt on the speedo side wheel) is moving up and down with the tie rod bolt...I guess the hole on that steering arm is worn??? What can I do about this? Could this be the likely cause and if so why only at low speeds? The spindle bolts and bushes were replaced before the trip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

Constantine

Do what Bob suggested, tighten up the spindle bolts. That can help a lot.

Jack up front wheel, jam a wedge between the yoke and spindle and rock the wheel back and forth to examine the spindles.

The tie rod hole can be shimmed if the bushing is really that loose. Insert a thin washer to take up the gap between the arm and tie rod bolt if that arm is spread or thin tin shims into the bolt hole.





That tie rod can be the trouble as you need to have the right toe and the rod ends need to be tight to prevent low speed wobble.




Sometimes the whole front axle may have pitched forward. If the front axle looking at the spindle and yoke, doesn't lean backwards 5 degrees, that can be source of bad wobble too.
Good luck...you are doing amazing on the road! What a travel!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 01:08 pm:

Why only at low speeds?

Because at higher speeds the wheels act as a gyroscope and tend to prevent the wheels from shaking.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 02:34 am:

A common problem with a sometimes easy fix. First, check ALL moving parts and everything that should be stable to make sure they are all safe and that nothing has broken or is ready to break. Don't forget to check the wishbone and front cross member.
Cumulative wear adds up. That bushing that is moving around could just be the tip of the iceberg (note the current day and time, think 100 years ago now). Sorry, I digress. Make sure everything is reasonably safe.
Then check the "toe-in". Most of the wear in the front axle results in the toe-in becoming toe-out. The front end is likely still safe, but may need a one or two turns in on the tie rod adjustment.
I have seen this happen on several front ends as they loosen.
GOOD LUCK! What you are doing is incredible by almost any standard!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Monday, April 16, 2012 - 01:07 am:

Sounds like worn bushings to me and a change in the tilt angle or caster, we had a roadster do this and you could let go of the steering wheel and it would stop shaking... Spring & perch bushings may fix it providing you haven't hit any big holes in order to bend the front axle. Bushings and king pins fixed ours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, April 16, 2012 - 06:02 am:

Considering the type of trip you're on, and the pummeling the front end has taken, I'd first do what Bob Jablonski suggested and make sure the pitman arm is REALLY tight on the end of the steering shaft. Everything else is likely worn as well, but I'd really suspect/check this first. It doesn't require parts to fix. Good luck and let us all know how it turns out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 04:52 pm:

Update.

Before I left Khartoum I had a good look at the front end of the car and noticed that the bolt on the passenger side front spring clamp was missing!

Found a bolt that fits and put it in. On the drive to Port Sudan the shaking problem didn't appear.

Could a broken front spring clamp have caused the problem I described above?

I cannot believe the bolt was missing for a long time as I looked at my front end on many occasions although I concentrated on the steering system not on the spring clamps. Perhaps the nut had fallen off a while back and eventually the bolt fell off...that would explain why the problem seemed to get worse.

What do you think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 09:17 am:

Constantine:

It would be my guess that a missing bolt in the spring clamp would have NO effect on your shimmy. I wish I was closer so I could help you go through tie rod, drag link, King pins, bushing in the lower bracket on the steering column, bolts on the lower steering bracket. and Pitman Arm. I have even heard that a front radius rods ball being loose can cause a shimmy. It is easy enough to shim all those items with metal. The penny in the balls are a good idea and I have used them when on a long trip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 09:46 am:

Constantine:

It would be my guess that a missing bolt in the spring clamp would have NO effect on your shimmy. I wish I was closer so I could help you go through tie rod, drag link, King pins, bushing in the lower bracket on the steering column, bolts on the lower steering bracket. and Pitman Arm. I have even heard that a front radius rods ball being loose can cause a shimmy. It is easy enough to shim all those items with metal. The penny in the balls are a good idea and I have used them when on a long trip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 10:27 am:

Thanks Dave,

We'll just need to see if it does it again. I'm still waiting for the car to arrive here.

Prior to departing Khartoum I did also tighten some bolts on the front end so perhaps that did the trick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 05:58 pm:

Constantine:

Your trip is fascinating, There are a lot of guys on the Forum that will help you any way they can. I have most anything you could ever need. Let me know, I sure I can work out shipping somehow. I have NOS spindle bushings and bolts if you need them. I have on a long trip wrapped the king pins with steel until I finished the trip. Keep the pennies handy.

pictue


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 09:11 pm:

Dave, thanks very much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 12:34 am:

I would not hesitate to donate $10 to the shipping fund, and I'm confident others would do the same. After all, what you are doing you are doing for all of us!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 04:51 pm:

I'll chip in $10 also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 08:22 pm:

I'm In for $10.


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