1925 transmission question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: 1925 transmission question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 06:08 pm:

I bought a 1925 Model TT truck 16 months ago with a 3 speed warford and 2 speed ruckstell. The drums in the trans our all the same width so it's a 1925 but the high-low and brake pedals our wide like a 26-27 model. I have to order new supports, will these pedals work? Right now the brake pedal rubs on the cover.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 09:09 pm:

Dave, better check close. It seems if I remember right that the brake band won't line up on the drum right, maybe someone else will chime in. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 09:25 pm:

As long as the hog head is correct for the small drum transmission you won't have any problems. 26-27 pedals and be put in a small drum hogs head and small drum pedals can be put in large drum hogs heads. The supports are all the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

Dave,

According to your profile this is your first posting. Although you may have been posting before and this is just a new user name. Anyway – welcome aboard if this is your first posting and if you are a regular poster – welcome back.

I apologize, but I’m not quite sure what you mean by “new supports.” As a picture is often worth a 1000 words if you can post a photo or I often use “Langs Catalog” as they have some nice photos and they are already resized to below 200kb so they post easily. If no one jumps in here and answer’s your question, I would recommend trying to clarify what you mean by “new supports.” I’m sure you will be given an good answer if folks understand your question.

Keith’s concern is if you have a later 1926-27 style transmission cover on an earlier transmission. And Kenny pointed out the pedals can be swapped out without swapping the transmission cover. Do you know what year transmission cover you have? If not – does it have the ears on top for bolts to go into the back of the engine? Which brings up the question – are you new to Model Ts? If not – please skip the following as I am including it with the thought this is your first T.

The engines and transmissions are often changed out over the years. And often times they change them as a unit. I.e. one car has a good engine and transmission in it but the body etc. is bad (or it was hit by the train etc.) and they pull that entire assembly out and place it in another vehicle. I would give it a good chance that if you have the 1926-27 wide pedals you also have the 1926-27 engine and transmission (it fits easily into the earlier cars. An easy way to tell: Does the engine have two bolt holes at the back as shown in the photo Jim Lyons posted previously (Thanks Jim!)?



The later 1926-27 style transmission housing had two ears on it and bolts went through the ears and into the back of the 1926-27 style blocks as shown below in a photo from Trent Boggess (thanks Trent) article about engine paint. Note the bolts are not there but you can see where they would go through the transmission ears into the back of the block.



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 04:27 am:

Also, does the pan open underneath for three or four rods? The block, the pan, the hogshead/transmission cover, the two wide pedals, the brake band, and the inner brake drum are all among the changes between late 1925 and early 1926 models. This change actually occurred around August 1925. It varied some by assembly plants.
Some of these items can readily interchange with the earlier parts. But you CANNOT run the late hogshead over the early drum. They do not center together for the brake to work reliably. Ironically, you CAN run the early hogshead over the late brake drum and use the early brake band. It will work just fine (by model T standards).
Brake pedals were often pressed very hard. It is not uncommon to find a brake pedal that hits the side of the hogshead. They can usually be straightened cold. But they are tough, so many people prefer to use some heat.
Model T people love to see pictures of model Ts! Could you post some of yours?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 01:39 pm:

A before picture of my truckbefore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 01:44 pm:

some current picturesnew 1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 01:45 pm:

new 2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 01:46 pm:

new 3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 01:48 pm:

new 4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 03:15 pm:

Dave,

Bottom Line Up Front: It looks like you have the standard 1925 and earlier (1919 or so) engine and transmission cover with the 1926-27 pedals installed.

Additional comments and questions:

Nice looking 1925 truck (ok -- it might also be a 1924 to 1926 C-cab with a 1925 or earlier engine.)

Are you basing the 1925 date of the truck based on the engine serial number or something else?
Did you post the serial number of the engine (feel free to xxx the last three or even four digits).
Are you basing the 1925 date of the truck based on the engine serial number or something else?
Did you post the serial number of the engine (feel free to xxx the last three or even four digits).

Have you looked on the top side of the trucks frame to see if there is a 1926 or later serial number stamped on the frame? See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/102644.html and the photos below: It can be located on the driver’s or the passenger’s side – but the top of the frame. It will not be there on a 1925 or 1926 produced during most of 1925. I apologize I do not remember the name of the person who previously posted these photos. They are of a car frame but the Mid Dec 1925 and later Truck frame has them in approximately the same location. On the top side of the frame some where above or not to far from the emergency brake shaft.





"IF" the longer running boards, C-cab, and the engine block are original to the truck, I believe it would be a later 1925 C-cab. If I am reading the Price List of Parts correctly the early 1925 trucks had the short running boards used 1918 to 1925 while the later 1925 trucks had the longer running boards used 1925 to 1927. The C-cab appears to have been used 1924 into 1926 [not really sure if that is calendar year or model year?]. But if those and other parts have been traded around -- then depending on which parts are original to the vehicle the actual date of the truck could be a little different.

I still don’t know which supports you are asking about.

Lang’s has 20 pages of parts that include the word “support” listed. I copied a few of those – are any of those the ones you are talking about?

Magneto support shim, laminated brass
• Item Number : 3272BR
Year : 1909-1927
http://www.modeltford.com/item/3272BR.aspx

Magneto support steel shim
• Item Number : 3272B
Year : 1909-1927

Magneto support spool
• Item Number : 3257
• Year : 1909-1927
http://www.modeltford.com/item/3257.aspx

Brake and reverse pedal support
• Item Number : 3436
• Year : 1909-1927
http://www.modeltford.com/item/3436.aspx

Clutch pedal support cam
• Item Number : 3442
http://www.modeltford.com/item/3442.aspx

Clutch pedal support bolt
• Item Number : 3443
• Year : 1909-1927

Brake and reverse pedal support bolt and nut
• Item Number : 3437
• Year : 1909-1925

Again good looking truck!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave A. Ulrich on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 08:04 pm:

The North Dakota title said 1925 and the engine number is 12146727 and at first glance I did not see any numbers on the frame where pictured


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

Dave, your engine was cast on approximately the 16th of July 1925. Your C-Cab appears to be a 25 by both the serial number and the block and transmission. Yours looks like a neat truck, we are currently working a C-Cab as well, your is much further. I would love to drive it, I wonder how the Ruckstell/Warford combo works. Ours has in in line underdrive. If your are putting in new pedal supports I hope you replace the shafts and put o-rings to help seal in the oil? I am the president of the Great Northern Model T Club and would love to have you join us. I also sell new and used parts, so let me know. My email is aloso@q.com, drop me a note if you are interested.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 10:02 pm:

The improved engine was introduced in full production just 11 days after your engine was built, so I think it's possible your 1926 type pedals were there from new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 05:05 pm:

I know that this is an older thread but I wanted to clarify that at least the Ton Trucks, did come with the Wider Pedals before the Aug 1925 Improved change. I happen to also have one of these Narrow Brake Drum, Wide Pedal 25's built in July.


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