What is the symptoms of bad coils, at mid to high RPM's the engine runs rough and sometimes pops and not much power, thinking maybe coils?
Just went through this. It was the timer.
Should have added: known good coils.
the timer was replaced when it was rebuilt only been driven a few hundred miles since being rebuilt but has sat garaged for about 6 years, can sitting ruin timer?
I don't think so unless the roller is bound up but I don't see that happening either. OK, condition of the coils (new capacitors/Hcc testing?) and maybe carb needle setting. Lean?
Stupid question: fresh fuel?
We have adjusted the carb. fifty different ways the last week don't know if coils are 100% I pulled all the plugs turned engine by hand stopping on each plug they seem to be a strong blue spark
yes fresh fuel
If you suspect the coils, you should have them checked. Coils can be the cause of the problem.
Steven
If coils have not been adjusted on a Hand Cranked Coil Tester or a Strobo-Spark tester then it is rather likely that the coils are the problem. Get them adjusted by someone who has either of those testers and knows how to adjust your coils using either of those testers. It isn't so much about the strength of the spark but the timing of the spark and its consistency that is important. You will never get the coils right on any other kind of tester and you will never know how sweet it can run after you do have them set up right. Don't listen to anyone who tells you they can set them up for you using a buzz box tester or any short cut method or on-the-car methods.
Had a New Day timer that would "Float" at high RPMs so, I put a stronger spring in it. Worked great for 500 miles. That's how long it took to gouge out the plastic case to the point of unusable!
A cheap timer, not oiled or cleaned, will only last the "few hundred miles" you say the car has been driven. It's an easy thing to check, just have a peek inside.
Timers will rust inside if not packed with grease. If the car has been sitting around idle for six years you can bet the timer needs to be cleaned. It takes about 2 minutes.
1. Loosen the timer clamp bolt. Remove the timer cotter pin. Don't disconnect the wires. Remove the timer, wipe out the old grease / oil / debris.
2. Clean the inside of the timer with Scotchbrite. Rinse out and wipe out with a good solvent. You can use any number of solvents, I like spray Brake Kleen but alcohol, paint thinner, acetone, gasoline or any other grease cutting substance will also work fine. Clean off the roller too, and wipe out the area around the roller with solvent.
Pack the timer with a good grease. I use red Mobilgrease #28 but any wheel bearing grease that is not black or grey in color works fine from my experience.
Put the timer back on. Repeat once every 1000 miles or any time the car doesn't seem to be puttering properly.
I could not agree with Royce more: Stock timers do rust inside, wear out, get filthy dirty and require continuous maintenance forever. So here is an alternate solution that only takes about 5 minutes:
1. Remove that old greasy worn out stock timer and replace with an E-Timer.
2. Put the timer back on and enjoy remarkable performance far superior than any other Model T timer you have experienced.
3. NEVER grease, replace, adjust, or service the timer (or coil points) ever again because the car is not puttering properly. Not in 1000 miles, not in 2000 miles, not in 5000 miles not in 10,000 miles. ;-)
Acknowledgement: The E-Timer operates on 6V, 8V, 10V or 12V battery; eliminating numerous magneto variables and limitations on ignition timing.
Love it! My E-timer is at 12,000 miles and running strong. Rain or shine.
Dean Yoder
Oh boy, here we go again<g>! I like it Mike. Dave
I needed a good laugh!!
Yup, Royce is always good for a laugh. Agreed .
Those of us with the E-Timer are "in the know"....... others really can not appreciate the positive difference until they try one.
Either it's Royce's hardline way.... or the highway.
Dean travels wherever the radiator cap goes, wish I could be as fortunate, day job gets in the way of fun. LOL
Bob Jablonski
THEIR OFF!!!!!!
Or you can just buy a 2013 F150. All the improvements have already been made.
No need to buy a new car.
Forget the electronic timer. Just figure out while we will always be able to restore a VW Beetle, MG-B, Chevy Pickup, Jeep, old Mercedes, Mustang, or Camaro, but not a Cadillac Alante, Prius, or any Y2K car for that matter: electronics.
Mechanical things will last for a hundred years and above, wear slowly and can be repaired, whereas electronics are made to fail silently in an instant without warning. Just have a look at cell phones and digital cameras. Now expose them to the weather and the violent vibrations of an Model T and you won't have to wait long 'til it fails. It's not a matter of if it fails but when. Usually that happens when you are on the road, when everybody cares a spare coil and timer but of course not an e-Timer.
Shouldn't we leave the constant market push for this electronic device out of these discussions?
Bernard:
Does your thought include the electric starter and the electric generator used on the Model T ??
Lighten up everyone, the E-Timer is not for everyone, just those who choose to use....... just like your choice (s) in life.
Bob J.
No, absolutely Not Bernard. As long as guys give advice how to get their cars running best by "Hook or by Crook" it's good to hear all the different ways to solve a problem.
You may know that the performance and trouble free miles of lots of the improvements available for our T's do in fact make for some trouble free driving. One of those available is the E Timer.
While I agree it's not for everyone, I also do not promote my negative opinions about something I haven't tried or know someone that has.
Thanks Mike for a great picture! I thought I would never see the Day when Royce would have an E Timer in his hand! I bet he's washing and disinfecting it at this moment... hee hee
One positive factor, will have more room in the turtle deck not having that big tub of grease to cart around & risk a hernia every 1000 miles........ hee hee
John:
I'm not really a negative person. I properly re-build & calibrate Ford ignition coils. I'll offer to service your coils if you'll pay shipping both ways. Your coils should not have a heavy blue spark at the points.
Send me a PM .
Bob Jablonski
I would not pay $450 for a E-timer. That's absurd.
A couple minutes of maintenance a year and the original timer willl last until you are too old to drive.
Bob, I have a coil with a very heavy blue spark at the points and wonder exactly what causes it.
Please explain the cause and cure.
James :
I quote from a earlier post:
"Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message By Ron Patterson on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 06:10 am:
Vray
Steven is right on the mark.
Heavy blue sparks at the points is an indication of open capacitor. If it is intermittent it is probably a cold solder joint on one the heads of the bolts where the wire is soldered.
Ron the Coilman"
Bob Jablonski
Royce:
$450.00 ????? WOW, where are your buying your E-Timer ?? Special price for you ??
http://www.shop.modeltetimer.com/
Bob J.
$424.95 plus shipping Bob. LOL........ how much change am I going to have from $450?
Gee Royce, you're not handing in a Ford commutator case & save more money ???? LOL !!!!
Thanks Bob, you have confirmed my suspicions.
A few years ago, I installed a brand new old stock New Day Timer. I was surprised to find one terminal completely eaten away on one side after driving only about 50 miles. It seemed to be caused by the high spark voltage travelling back down the wire to that terminal connection. I suspected the secondary winding was shorting internally in one coil at that time.
Original condensers will leak electrically causing the points to burn, visually heavy blue sparks. Snyder's, Fun Projects, & Lang carry the correct capacitors (modern term) to use & will easily handle the higher voltage spikes found in a working coil.
I bought the capacitors, but I burned up the coil case trying to get the tar warm enough to flow out. I never have seen the temperature specifications for that tar.
You chip the tar out cold. You warm it to pour it back in.
Bob, one more thing to consider. Have you verified that the fuel screen is clean? I had a similar issue last year. My screen was extremely dirty. I cleaned it and it ran great for a month and began doing it again. The screen was fairly clean this time. I ran the tank way down and pulled the potato off. I found the inlet to the potato had a huge glob of stuff covering the inlet. Cleaned it all up and it has been running like a champ.
Best of Luck
James:
You cannot get the box warm enough to have the tar flow out without destroying the box. As others have stated, you need to carefully chip out the tar around the capacitor location enough to remove and replace the existing capacitor. Tar is actually easiest to chip out when good and cold since it is pretty brittle then.
John, I came to the same conclusion.
I'm still not sure that the warm up process is safe enough to use either.
One of the local schools had the chunk wax explode in a pan when they were warming it to pour and make candles.
The wax and tar are both petroleum products.
James,
I bet the school was using paraffin to make candles, not wax. Wax is not made from petroleum.
John,
One of my T's used to run great for a while. After about 15-20 miles it would start missing and quit. I'd stop, raise the hood and check all the wire connections and look at the timer and find nothing wrong. I'd get back in and it would start and go a few more miles. I had no mag and 6v battery. I was convinced the coils couldn't keep up with extended high speed operation with only a 6V battery,so, I changed to a 12V battery. No difference. I relocated my gas line farther away from my exhaust and have had no problem since.
Royce, go buy a lottery ticket,you are right on today!
I agree with Charlie B., the timer issue has to be addressed.......... and then the coils should be checked.
The best thing about the E timer is when it does quit you just have to give it a quick wipe with a clean rag or just a little lube and you are back on the road again. NOT