VENDORS BEWARE! Better check your screens.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: VENDORS BEWARE! Better check your screens.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:15 pm:

I know that several parts dealers frequent this forum, so I thought I'd give you a heads-up on this so you can check your stock and, if necessary, contact your supplier.

One thing leads to another. Today I adjusted my brake pedal, and I thought while I had the cover off I might as well install the oil screen I bought a couple of months ago. That's where I ran into trouble.


When the screen lies flat, the holes (and the rest of the screen) don't line up.


And when the holes line up, the screen doesn't lie flat.


I thought the problem might be this gap, so I did a little "body work" on it. That didn't help. So I resorted to actually measuring.


It turns out that a two-and-a-half-inch piece...


...doesn't fit into a two-inch space.

This isn't meant to be a vendor-bashing exercise, and I don't want to see any rants. This will only be a dealer's fault if he knows about it and sells the screen as it is anyway. I don't expect that to happen.

My suggestion for customers, now that you're aware of this problem, would be to have the dealer measure the piece before you order it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:36 pm:

You got me wondering now Steve. I was just in the '18 last night and didn't notice the extra meat in the corners like yours. It may be there, but there is a possibility some sand got knocked around when yours was cast and you got a little more metal than intended. Just speculating?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert G. Hester Jr., Riverview, FL on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:39 pm:

Steve, looking at your last picture I first thought it was a problem with the casting of your hogshead. I went out and looked at the same on my '27 and it looks the same as yours. Good luck. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Victoria Australia on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:41 pm:

I think Hal has nailed this one, in your case it looks like you'll have to take those two extra casting over runs off, your filter should fit nicely then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:42 pm:

I bought one two years ago and it has fit fine. My car is a 1927 - did Ford change the alignment of the holes when they made the improved car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:51 pm:

I had the same problem two years ago putting a new repro filter into a Canadian '26 hogshead. If something doesn't fit I always try to modify the repro piece before messing with the original. In this case, a bit of careful ball-peen work at the two lower corners of the screen was all it took.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 05:04 pm:

Steve, my hogshead looks more like the one in the picture below.

Personally I would not use a ball-peen hammer on your hogshead unless you have a spare one. I would be afraid that it would fracture in the wrongs spots. Fill the tranny with rags and use a right angle grinder or a small Dremle with a grinder bit. Have a fire extinguisher nearby (just in case).

hogshead


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 05:14 pm:

Jason
I think Steve said he modified the new screen not the hogs head.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 05:18 pm:

Sorry I mean Chris.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:04 pm:

Most all late hogsheads are like that too. Meat at the corners. Common.

Note the factory picture of the later '24 with the oil flipper flare. It has the metal in the lower corners.








Haven't had a bad fit on the screens used to date, maybe the rounded base at the lower end of the newer screens isn't there. This style is what I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

These new screens that come with the magnet have a smaller screen area then the ones made seven or eight years ago., I tried finding my post from a while back with pictures showing the difference between them but came up blank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 06:25 pm:

About 10 to twenty percent take a little fitting, more in the earlier cars, no big deal, hammer, and a vice does wonders. Herm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 07:01 pm:

Come on now Jay - Memory is the second thing to go!

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/130259.html

Regards
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 08:20 pm:

Like Hal and David, I thought this hogshead might be an oddball, having extra iron in the lower corners. So I looked at four different transmissions.


1915


1923


1924


1926

I found just what Dan's pictures show. Interestingly, even in the 1915 the screen doesn't quite fit. I've already done a little fitting on the screen, but I intend to get serious with the vise and hammer and make it really fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 08:28 pm:

I gotta say that looks purposely done. So much for my theory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 08:34 pm:

That’s ok Bob, I should have fully comprehended what Chris wrote.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Brownsburg,In. on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 08:42 pm:

I have never bought one. I just don't see $30 worth of labor or technology there. I found some metal screen and make my own. They fit correctly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:00 pm:

Art; Thanks for finding the link, you rock!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:02 pm:

Hmm, Neither of my hogs heads have the extra meat in the corners. Now I do feel cheated!

I would ascertain that the part was based on square corners, not the reality of filleted corners.
Bummer! So Steve, Can the filter be reshaped to fit?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:19 pm:

I'll bet it can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:28 pm:

There can't be much iron in those corners.
Seems to me a crescent wrench and a rag to catch pieces of iron would "fix" those corners in a hurry.
Just last week I installed those screens (mine came from Lang's) in da coop and da tooring car.......they fit perfectly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 05:14 am:

Yep I've had the same issue, fixed with a little brute force directed at the screen;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Victoria Australia on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 06:02 am:

I had a look in my wife's 26 trans this afternoon, all square in there, no extra bits,no sign of extra bit removal either, Hmmmm, strange that the pic shows it in "FIG 507" too !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Battell (south of Fond du Lac, Wis) on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 07:12 pm:

I just pulled the cover on my '27 Roadster this afternoon, and it has the extra metal in the corners of the casting.

Has anyone found screens that fit this kind of opening without having to smash the corners of the screen?

Also, Jack Daron said he made his own. I would like to hear how he does this, and maybe see a picture or two of what he fabricates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Brownsburg,In. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 07:33 pm:

John,just make a cardboard pattern and I use galvanized metal and solder the pieces together. I coat them with electrical varnish. I did mine before the magnet thingy came to be ,so there is no magnet in mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 07:43 pm:

Mine fits pretty well and sure does what its supposed to do... Ill never run without one again, and this is the very first one Ive ever used!! This is after a 15 minute run yesterday! ws

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2jbpfuc.jpg[/IMG]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J Berch on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:10 pm:

Wow Bill, you must have been eating M&M's while you were putting your car together. ;)

My screen is one of the older ones. It doesn't have a magnet in it. Are the Magnets glued in or are they just held in place with magnetism? I would really like to put a magnet in mine.

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:23 pm:

John,
The magnet just sticks (magnetism) to the steel screen. Just pull it out to clean it. It is quite a strong magnet but most any would likely work well.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:24 pm:

Smoke and mirrors John! The red stuff is residual anaerobic sealant... I wont use RTV internally any more! Just get a magnet aand toss it in/on... you wont be sorry! ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J Berch on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:25 pm:

Thanks Jim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J Berch on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:27 pm:

I was just pulling your leg Bill. Thanks :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 09:08 pm:

I was contacted by one of our good vendors who saw this thread. He said he's going to tell the maker of the screens about the fit problem on the later cars. No guarantee that the maker will fix the problem, but at least he'll know about it. Meanwhile, I'm going to do a little body work on mine and make it fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hill on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 10:57 am:

I was wondering if any of you had a used one of the oil screens that came out of the 27 with the extra meet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 11:55 am:

The crap-traps that I sell are made by a different supplier and always fit perfectly. Notice the different shape of the oil holes (for identification purposes).



a


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Harrison,Norco Ca on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 12:37 pm:

I have a 27 and I don't know if my hogshead has the extra "meat" or not,never noticed,but looking at Steve's pictures I would guess it does. I did recently install a new screen which fit my car fine.My issue was that the spot welds on mine were weak (one was actually broken) to the point that I decided I better pop rivet the parts together for safety.This was a brand new part.So be careful when you are reworking this part and check the condition of the welds when you finish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Battell (south of Fond du Lac, Wis) on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 01:11 pm:

Tom-
What do yours cost, and how does one order from you?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 02:17 pm:

Mine are $29.95 + shipping.

Call 1-800-327-1469


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By AHOOGA A & T "Reproduction Parts" on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:24 am:

Gentlemen, please allow me to interject. We manufacture the oil screen that measures 2 1/2. They are made right here in Franklin, Ohio and are all die stamped components. I know these have been made for many years because I purchased an existing business from a gentleman that started making parts from around 1957 thru 2010 and he was just not quite able to continue due to health reasons. He was and still is an avid Model A and T enthusiast. That is how he started making parts in the first place.
As far as the fit is concerned. We now know about this thanks to everyone on this thread. Our goal is to make the best parts possible, and to make them here in the U.S.A. We have now lowered our prices on these and have added a rare earth magnet to them as well in order to remain competitive. Hopefully your vendors will reflect the price change for you too. The rare earth magnet is much smaller than the ferrous magnet shown in the picture but it is also much stronger. I had to same concerns with the larger magnet and interfering with the flow. That is why I decided to go with the smaller magnet. The steel is the same gage as they were years ago. We randomly test the welds on everything we make to insure a quality product.
We were not aware of the changes in the castings on the hogs heads and from what I observed in the pictures, and from my own background with castings, and I hate to assume but since that is all any of us can do, it looks like it was a deliberate change in the pattern. This could have been done because the original patterns wore out or they could have had a new foundry making them. Or it could have been to help stop rejects. I am not sure what kind of machines they had during that period, but manufacturing was still in its relative infancy compared to today’s standards and they may have had a lot of rejects after they machined the threaded holes into it. But all this is an assumption and I don’t like to do that.
As far as a solution is concerned. I am trying to contact all our customers to let them know so they can pass this along to their customers.
We are going to look at our tooling and see if we can fix this problem.
Does anyone know what year these hog’s heads changed? Was it 24, 25, 26 or 27?
Also, if someone out there could send us an accurate template, it would help us to make a better part for you.

Thanks to all,
We appreciate all you input.

AHOOGA A & T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse--Granville,Ohio on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

AAOOGA A & T----Really good to get your input! I`ll certainly put you guys on the "approved" list----especially since you guys are in Ohio! Thanks, Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 12:37 pm:

My second picture in the April 20 post above is on a 1923, so the change was that year or earlier. I don't have a car between 1915 and 1923, so somebody else will have to check those years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 01:25 pm:

None of mine, the '19, '20 or '25, have the extra meat at the corners so......?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 02:09 pm:

AHOOGA A & T:

I have had screens in 5 of my cars and put them in others cars and don't ever remember having a problem. I think they are great
THANKS!

five ts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Battell (south of Fond du Lac, Wis) on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 05:47 pm:

AAOOGA A & T & everyone-

I pulled the tranny cover off my 26 Depot Hack this afternoon. It also has the extra casting around the rear of the opening. I am attaching a photo showing the opening. My Depot Hack has a screen, and it appears to have been made for the narrower opening (I don't see any indication that it had been hammered flat). As seen in the attached photo, there was some stuff in the screen.

I did lay a piece of paper over the opening and rubbed around the opening, so I do have a template of the opening. If AHOOGA will give me his mailing address, I will mail the template to him. Either post it here, or send me a pm.
tranny opening debris in screen
rear bottom of screen rear bottom corner of screen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Bergmann Sydney - Australia on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:53 pm:

My 2 26's needed panel beating to fit. I thought it might have been a right hand drive thing.
Now I think its a casting thing. IMHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By AHOOGA A & T "Reproduction Parts" on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 09:16 am:

Paul, Thank you for your approval. We do appreciate it. Even though its a little "Ohio" biased!! :-)

Dave, we are so glad that they do what they are suppose to do, and do it so well. The next time I see the gentleman that originally made them and had the dies made, I will tell him.

John, it looks like you have one of our screens. In the top picture, it appears to have one of the "D" holes stamped into it. Is that true? If so, and your screen was in your hogs head with the two bosses cast in. Then I have to ask why? Or a better question is how? How did it fit on yours, but not on others with the same casting? Why does yours fit and others are having issues. Another head scratcher for sure!!!
If you have the template, perhaps that will help. And if someone that has our screen that wont fit in their hogs head would send us a template off of theirs, then it may shed some light on this.
Currently we manufacture Model A, Model T and some Early Ford parts. Many of these have not been on the market for several years. We are trying to reintroduce everything that we have tooling for and eventually we want to grow and do more parts.
We have only been manufacturing since around Sept. 2011, we out grew our first location and just moved to a much larger location and purchased another stamping press.
We look forward to any pointers and welcome everyone to contact us if you have any concerns.
Currently, we have only sold wholesale, but we are going to start retail sales in the near future.
We do have a website but we only have contact information on it right now. That is going to change when we take that next step.

Our contact information is below.
Our website is www.ahoogaparts.com.
My email is dale@ahoogaparts.com
Mailing address is;
P.O. Box 147
Springboro, Ohio 45066
Ph. 937-746-7105
Fax 937-746-7106

Shipping address is;
310 Conover Dr.
Franklin, Ohio 45005

And again, thank you,

Dale A.

Oh, and our Logo is attached.

image/bmp
Ahooga A&T_72.bmp (65.5 k)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Battell (south of Fond du Lac, Wis) on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

The first picture of the screen in this thread seems to have square corners on the screen. The corners on mine are rounded, and the flat area of the screen extends back about 3/8" from the top of the rear screw holes. Apparently this combination keeps the part of the screen that protrudes downward far enough from the corners in the casting.

I am attaching a photo of the underside of the screen showing the "D" holes, and also another showing the rounded corners on the screen material. This screen came with my car when I bought it, so I don't know where it was purchased from, and the man that did the restoration on my car has been dead for about ten years, so I can't ask him about it.


screen rear underside closeup

underside of screen assembly


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By AHOOGA A & T "Reproduction Parts" on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 04:24 pm:

To all, we have found another die that takes care of the oil screen not fitting the hogs head with the extra bosses in the corners. If anyone wants to replace theirs with one that is stamped correctly please email me directly at dale@ahoogaparts.com. We will send you a corrected on when you send us yours at no charge. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you and we want to assure you that we will stand behind our products.
Also, I want to publicly thank John for the sketch he provided and another customer that I will keep anonymous until I have their permission to give their name out for actually trying both the fixed part and an un-fixed part just to insure we had the correct fix for this problem.

Thank you,
Dale Adkins
President,
AHOOGA A & T
310 Conover Dr.
Franklin, Ohio 45066

937-746-7105
dale@ahoogaparts.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 04:30 pm:

Can't beat that for service. I'm impressed!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 05:11 pm:

Way to go guys! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 06:35 pm:

This is what I like to see. A problem and the supplier actually tries to solve the problem!

It goes to show that this forum can make a difference as far as part changes to make them fit most Model T Fords.

We should also thank Dale Adams, the manufacturer of the part for stepping up to the plate, and taking an active role in making the part fit more Model T Fords!

I would hope more manufacturers would read this forum and post there solutions to parts that the forum members indicate are a problem. This not only helps the customer, but should result in more parts purchased from that manufacturer. In summary a win win for all!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Battell (south of Fond du Lac, Wis) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 06:31 pm:

Just wanted to let everyone know that I purchased the oil screen from Ahooga A & T Reproduction parts, and it fit perfectly on my 1927 Roadster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson (Aust) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:49 pm:

I have one fitted to my '21 Canadian built car too (Luckily) and it fits fine thanks.
From another thread......
............................................
Well, here we go.
Apart from my starter error (seniors moment) my most embarrassing episode would have to be when.......
I picked up the freshly rebuilt '21 engine/trans from a T engine rebuilding specialist.
I eventually fired the engine up and it ran beautifully. We tuned it and ran it and each time we did so the thing got slower and slower to start. Eventually, refusing to wind over at all.
It turns out the engine builder had put rags in all the opened orifices and unknown to me, on the 200+kms trip home, one of them had fallen inside the engine from the starter hole.
To remind me of my mortality, I have on the top shelf above my workbench a glass jar full of chewed up, very oily, blue rag. It took me several visits to the engines innards and flushes to be confident that I had removed all of it.
How silly do you think I felt at the time? Eh? Nearly as silly as I do now telling the world. But I think I'm old enough and big enough to absorb the comebacks.
Cheers,
Rob
PS; I thoroughly recommend fitting a transmission oil screen in your T if you don't have one. This excersize proved to me just how well they work.
..............................................


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