Help Required to Identify These E&J Lights

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Help Required to Identify These E&J Lights
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Heffey on Sunday, April 22, 2012 - 07:24 am:

I have been asked by a friend to help sell a nice pair of lights that he has. He thinks that they are off a veteran Studebaker or similar but I suspect that they may be early 15 centre door. The have the low holes around the chimney suggesting early 15 but I havn't seen this later style of sidelights with the early style spade mounts. Can anyone offer suggestions as to what they may be off.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, April 22, 2012 - 07:41 am:

Spade mounts were used by Duncan and Fraser in South Australia through the teens, has your friend have a price in mind?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Heffey on Sunday, April 22, 2012 - 08:01 am:

Thanks Kerry, I have sent you a PM


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Sunday, April 22, 2012 - 11:44 am:

1914 Buick, may be for the 6 cylinder model if the doors are significantly larger diameter than T lamps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Heffey on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 02:21 am:

The side lights are just like early (circa 1915 or 16) lights, except the mounts are a spade fitting rather than the common stud and nut. It has a fatter brass door that is very similar to the 1915 brass door. Can anyone confirm that they are T or otherwise?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 07:23 am:

Andrew,

Please clarify if know if the lamps are USA or Canadian. The reason I say that is you are located in New Zealand and if the lamps are original to one of the cars (not necessarily a Ford) imported there -- then that might change the answer. If they were purchased in the USA and known to be USA lamps then the answer may be different. Note, the larger front door was used on the early 1915 USA production -- but not most of the USA production. And I'm 90% sure that the USA production front side lamps used a bolt through the back rather than a spade mount. Note the 1915 Centerdoor produced winter of 1914-1915 did use a spade mounted rear tail lamp -- but the door did not open horizontally but at a slant -- based on where the hinge is located.

Do you have any additional history on the lamps -- i.e. where they came from? I am initially leaning towards the idea that they are not original Ford USA lamps -- but clearly there is more to the story still to be discovered.

See: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/I-O.htm#lamps and go down to the 1915 lamps.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Heffey on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 08:15 am:

Thanks for that Hap. I believe that they may be from the US based on the stamp on the wick winder. I will check with the owner in the morning (it's just after midnight here) and see if there is a stamp on the brass top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Heffey on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 01:28 am:

Hap, I have checked with the owner and he cant supply any more of the history of the lights. The brass top caps don't have any stamping, so the mystery continues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 07:42 am:

Andrew,

With the very limited information we have so far I suspect they are USA made E&J lights about 1913-1915 for a different make of car. But of course the handle for the wick adjustment could have been replaced, as well as the complete wick assembly, or the complete lower section of the lamp -- they go on and off easily. At:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/32370.html

Mark Cameron shared:

By Mark Cameron on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:49 am:
I have been researching these lamps for some time. In 1914 and 1915 Ford published a "price list of accessories" that covered the non-mechanical parts of a Ford car. This book detialed the different lamps that were used during this time. The 1915 version of the book calls out a "special design" edmunds and jones lamp package that includes the Model 6 sidelamp and model 7 tailamp seen on Kim's car. The headlight is an E and J model 456. This lamp is also pictured in the Floyd clymer book that shows the cockpit of an early 15 touring. I pulled the original of this picture from the Ford archives and it was dated Jan 1915. It looks to me like these lamps were used only on the 1915 models that were produced during Nov-dec 1914 and possibly Jan of 1915. Since the closed models were the only 1915 cars in production at this time, this is why they are so rare and commonly reffered to as a closed car lamp. I am restoring a Jan 1915 coupelette and I would be interested to meet anyone who has a 456 headlight I could examine. The side and tail were used on Chevrolet little (1912-13) and Buick (1913-1914) so they are not as rare.
And in Sep 30 2007 an unrestored right side single of those sold. The seller implied it might be early 1915 Ford, It is a blade-mount and it is for the right side. It may be for a 1914, 1915, 1916 Buick, Chevrolet, Monroe, cyclecar, or other small to medium horseless carriage automobile. So we still need to locate some of those other makes to confirm that. But I suspect the front side lamps with the bayonet mounts and the 1915 style shape were not supplied normally by Ford USA.
If others have corrections that they did come on USA produced Fords or information on which cars they did come on – please let us know.
Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 09:50 am:

Way back in the spring of '97, when I first got into Ts, I found a pair like that at a local swap meet, but the lenses were smaller, and the brass face bigger. They didn't look like the ones on our newly purchased speedster, so I passed them by at $50 each...

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Boothroyd, Victoria, B.C. on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 02:32 pm:

Notice the E & J No 30 inscribed in the glass.

Regards,
Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 07:59 am:

Nickle plating traces are on all the brass parts. They appear to be for a mid size car, as several folks have noted. EJ lamps were used on a multitude of makes and models. They could be correct for twenty different brands of car. Just not Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Heffey on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 08:28 am:

Thanks for the info everyone, but it seems that we will not have a definitive answer as to what they are off.
Royce, the silver bits are just a trick of the light and there are no traces of nickel on any of the parts.
Andrew NZ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J Berch on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 01:33 pm:

Used in many applications.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 09:19 am:

Here is a few in my collection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Hardesty on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:29 pm:

I am not meaning to hijack the thread but I am a newbie and I do not see how to start a new thread. I have a Edmund & Jones tail light, and I cannot get the base off from it in which the fuel was stored power the light. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance, Bookman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:18 am:

Similar lamps were sold in the US after market to update earlier cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:45 am:

Larry,

To start a new thread click on the "Forum 2012" link at the top of this page. Then click on the "Start New Thread" button centered just a little from the top. If you title your new thread well folks may be able to help you. Maybe a new thread title could be, "Need Edmund & Jones tail light help".

Jim


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