After looking at a recent post on a broken front axle, I looked at a purchase I made at Chickasha Ok 15 plus years ago.
The 09/10 axle I bought as an original along with some 1922 one piece spindles. The later 1922 spindles can be used with a little adjustment on the arm.
After close examination of both items, I believe they are both modified. The axle has a little difference in appearance at the same place as the other posting showed the broken axle.
But even worse, the one piece spindles which were supposed to be 1922 appear to have a lot of strange marks where the spindle arm is attached to the spindle body. Also the part number (2694-C-R and 2695-C-L) has been ground off.
These parts were supposed to replace the the incorrect front axle on my 1910 Mother-In-Law roadster. I might be lucky I did not get around to installing them. Car is a running car, I was just thinking of making it more correct.
First pictures are the parts described above.
The last two pictures are of an early axle and no DB or any marking seem to be on the axle.
Sure looks like it's been altered. I don't know much about specialized welding but I know they X ray welds. Why couldn't a person have them X rayed and stress tested just to be on the safe side?
I agree with John. That DB axle has been welded for sure. Maybe it's OK, but maybe not. I'd sure be reluctant to put it on a car that's driven any more than off and on a trailer.
That axle has definately been welded. I wouldn't use it if it was mine, there is no way to tell how good of a job was done on it without having it tested. No wider than the weld area is on it, I would almost bet that the edges were just ground down slightly and there is only one or too beads on it. That is the way that axle in the other thread looked to me. If it was prepared as it should have been, the weld would have been much wider. At least that's how I would have done it. Dave
Dave isn't a butt weld like that weak anyway? Not to mention grinding away all the strength to make it pretty.
The spindle on the left looks like the 1922 version.
Sorry; the last half of my post went bye-bye. I was saying that that is original, and safe enough to use, even if not correct.
John, yep. Dave
Willie,
I would agree with others. The axle looks welded. I would say that the spindles are genuine however.
Willie - Not to change the subject, but I have to show my ignorance; the last two photos of the early axles with no markings,......it appears that the spring perches have been reversed and there is some strange type of link that apparently allow standard length springs to be used with the reversed perches. Or, is this part of an after market accessory shock absorber set up?
Well,..... in looking at the two photos some more,.....maybe the perches are NOT reversed, but anyway, something looks weird in that area. Mostly, an extra piece between the spring and the spring perch that I don't recognize.
It is very rare for a weld to actually break in the weld. The weld metal is typically as strong if not stronger than the "parent metal" The area of concern is generally the "heat effect" zone, which is the parent metal right against the weld metal. If the objects were preheated to maybe 400-500F and then welded using a compatible rod with the correct heat there is little to worry about.
X-ray of joint of this shape would be quite difficult to get worthwhile results. Ultrasonic would provide reasonable information.
Grinding off all the weld "re-enforcement" does not harm the weld in my opinion.
If it was my axle I would sandblast it and start with a "die penetrant" examination and really good visual. If there were no visible defects then I would put it in my press and put some side load on it, maybe just enough to bend it very slightly. The die check it again. The bend it very slightly the other way. Again die check it. Assuming no defects appeared I personally would use it on my car.
If any defects appeared I would carefully grind out the weld 1/2 at a time and have my friend re-weld it.
I am not recommending this course of action to Willie or anyone else
Well when I had a kick pedal piece for a 1931 Briggs engine welded a couple weeks ago I learned alot about cast iron welding.I know these axles are vandium,but the same things I learned may apply.I was told that just takeing the crown off of a weld will take about 40 % of the strength away from it.There is only 1/4 inch of weld there on that axle.That does not look like enough.Whoever sold that axle as original took your money and ran to the bank laughin.Probably not thinking about the fact he could be sending you to a early grave.Xray that thing.
Another thing I learned.Ibeam shaped items,such as this axle and the kick pedal part for my briggs,are hard to weld.The trouble is in the center of the top and bottom of the "flat".You cant grind into it well enough.You can weld the center and the top but that little bit in the middle is hard to get.We had air pockets on my part and had to do alot of grinding to fix it.
Just draw the shape of the axle if you were looking at it from the broke end.You will see where i am talking about.Top and bottom of the flat where it goes into the top and bottom.Hard area to weld.
Thanks for all the input on the welded axle. If I ever decide to put it on that 10 roadster, I will have an experienced welding shop take a look at the welds.
The right side one in the 1922 one piece spindles photos has been bend to fit an early front end by the previous owner who said to heat the other to form the shape as the right one.
The lower two photos of the early axle must have had some sort of an after market shock. The photo does not show it real good but something was cut off that center piece of iron and the spring now is resting on the axle. Yes the spring perches are installed backwards. No I have never driven the car, but I would think the spring end would bang on the axle if you hit a big bump.
So far everyone has missed the real difference on the lower two axle pictures.
Well, not QUITE everyone,....ha,ha,......thanks for the explanation Willie,.....harold
I have been a professional welder most of my life and would trust a good weld in this area. If it would make you feel more comfortable, a bad weld will crack before it fails. I have seen many stock axles that have broken on different things and if you just inspect your car as you clean it you will discover these cracks by looking for broken paint and rust that will be bleeding out.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks Fred, I have not decided what I will do yet, I am still getting over the surprise at not being told that about the welds at the time of purchase. Those post on the broken axle made me take a hard look at the axle. I was not aware that someone was casting the ends of an early axle. SURPRISE, SURPRISE
Willie I would not use that axle on a car that is going to be running and driving. I wouldn't trust it to drive on and off a trailer once.
Defective aftermarket parts are not new:
Willie,
Is that a wide track axle?
William, you are correct on the last two pictures. The welded axle was intended for a 10 roadster and has no connection to the last two pictures.