Shaking going into high

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Shaking going into high
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 08:02 pm:

The title pretty much sums it up; when going into high,unless I'm going down hill with no strain on the engine, I'm getting what I feel is excessive vibration. I know it's not the tires. It goes away after I've gotten my speed up but something isn't right and it only seems to happen after the shift is made. Doesn't seem to matter how much I wind it out in low, still happens. Rear axle, universal joint, drive shaft all new. Engine rebuilt but by who I don't know, runs good.
Any ideas where I should be looking to find the source?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

If you are kicking it into high at too slow a speed that's exactly what it will do.
Sometimes retarding the timing some will reduce the vibrations......sometimes....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 09:04 pm:

Vibration at the shifting point is pretty common. The way I eliminated this problem was to have revolving parts of the engine and transmission balanced. Makes a big difference.
On the 12, the crank was 22 grams out of balance at first. I did everything I could think of to cure the vibration. Nothing helped until I tore the engine down and had the parts dynamically balanced. It worked. Now I am a believer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

I always retard the timing when I shift and it doesn't seem to make any difference whether I wind it out or not.
Wouldn't be supprised if balance was the problem but hoping it could be something easier to fix.
Thanks guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 09:19 pm:

Richard, Bud Delong talked me into balancing one that way and I could not believe the difference on how they run and how much more rpm's you could get out of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 09:30 pm:

Tyler my hand lever was hitting the floor board not letting high totally engage. After trimming my floorboard problem went away no shuddering. My engine is not balanced for the record.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

It sounds as if the shaking is what model T'ers call "lugging" simply because there is a wide range of engine rpm's between low gear and high gear. If this is what you are describing the the vibration is normal.

The engine simply must get up to roughly 12-15 mph and the lugging calms down and the vibration disappears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 11:59 pm:

Make sure you don't have a weak cylinder that is cutting out under load.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 12:15 am:

Clutch shudder?

Peter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 05:17 am:

It's not just normal lugging, it's worse than that. I'm going to explore here in a little while, when it stops SNOWING! I'm guessing/hoping it's clutch related.
Thanks everyone for your ideas.

Tyler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 05:24 am:

Tyler, I have had that problem before and found that an adjustment of the mixture helped considerably. Just a thought. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 08:10 am:

Try adjusting the cam bolt so that direct drive engages just after the brake lever goes forward, maybe two inches, from vertical. This eliminated my problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 08:40 am:

Tyler:

How much snow did your area get in that last storm ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 09:38 am:

Bob

Tuesday morning I spent about three hours in my woods knocking snow off bent over sapplings. In several places the snow was over my knee boots, which are 16" high. Crazy for this time of year. Are you from the area?

I'm going to check the cam situation along with everything else here in a little bit. My T is in an unheated building and it's still only 31 degrees. Thanks again for the help.

Tyler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 10:15 am:

Look for a busted ear on the frame rail... ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 10:17 am:

Tyler:

You could lift the rear axel up on jack stands so it would be easier to start. Depending on the viscosity of the engine oil, straight weight 30 oil will have a drag on the clutch plates compared to multi-viscosity 10W30.

Your area had snow, lots of the white stuff, while we at the southern Jersey shore had the liquid wet stuff, and a lot warmer temp.

Once you get the engine warmed then the clutch lever bolt can be adjusted.

Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, April 28, 2012 - 08:22 am:

Tyler: If your schedule permits this weekend, please tell us of your results. Thanks !


Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Saturday, April 28, 2012 - 08:25 am:

Perhaps it's not the car shaking but the old fart behind the wheel! Drink more coffee.

Hi Tyler...Hope you find your problem. We need to meet 1/2 way for coffee sometime like we talked about at the auction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 07:55 am:

I've checked everything up to the limits of my abilities(anyone who knows me well would have a field day with that statement). Was going to have my old buddy check it out today but somebody from Canada came down to the area for the weekend in their Model A and broke a valve so they got him working on it.
The only issues found thus far was one of my rear wheels was loose, got about three more slots on the castle nut when I tightened it. Don't know what caused that, I check them every year. Put balancing beads in the tires, don't know how much that will help as I seldom go over 30-35 mph.
Probably just an un-balanced engine/trans. Going to visit some friends about 40 miles away today with the T and will see how things go. Will report back when I get this figured out.
Denny; I like being an old fart. Even though I'm only 53, with my grey hair I appear much older and have stopped arguing with waitresses that I am NOT eligible for senior citizens discounts. I'm pretty flexible with my schedule as far as meeting someplace, let me know what will work for you.
Thanks again folks and will let you know how it goes.

Tyler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 07:58 am:

Needing snow tires ??????? Have a good ride.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 01:15 pm:

The first time I was offered a senior discount, I was insulted. But my Jack Benny side woke up, and now I just smile! In another year, I will qualify legitimately, Oh RATS! (In some places I already do. .. )
Where's my cane, I have to beat some sense into some young whippersnappers!
T'
David D.
Egads, that word was in spell check!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 01:22 pm:

Tyler,

Did you look for a broken motor mount as someone suggested? Do you have the side bolts & blocks of wood installed on your motor mounts? A broken mount or lack of those bolts/blocks will do what you describe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:00 am:

Jerry:

Loose motor mount on pan a possibility. I opted to not use the wood blocks & haven't had any problems. My mentor has not used the wood blocks for over 50 years without any problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 09:01 am:

Without the wood blocks the pan arms will break eventually. The wood blocks ensure there is no flexing of the pan arms.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 05:46 pm:

Still have no clue,my mentor says they all shake and didn't seem too concerned. You know, it just dawned on me that I have never driven another T so I really don't have anything to compare it to. I'll have my ole buddy drive the car and see what he thinks.
Car ran well on my trip Sunday, put about 100 miles on it with no issues and it goes down the road well, better now that I have the balancing beads in the tires.
Wood blocks are in place and appear to be snug, not overly tight. Lever goes all the way forward and doesn't contact the floor. Pan ears are fine. If I get anything figured out I'll let everyone know what it was.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Nice to have y'all around for support.

Tyler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 05:48 pm:

Still have no clue,my mentor says they all shake and didn't seem too concerned. You know, it just dawned on me that I have never driven another T so I really don't have anything to compare it to. I'll have my ole buddy drive the car and see what he thinks.
Car ran well on my trip Sunday, put about 100 miles on it with no issues and it goes down the road well, better now that I have the balancing beads in the tires.
Wood blocks are in place and appear to be snug, not overly tight. Lever goes all the way forward and doesn't contact the floor. Pan ears are fine. If I get anything figured out I'll let everyone know what it was.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Nice to have y'all around for support.

Tyler


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