Uh oh, I think that I have a problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Uh oh, I think that I have a problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Forrest Scott on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 12:20 pm:

just got my t running a new months ago but i cant go far cause of a radiator problem. after fooling around with the carb settings, I took my 26 touring around the neighborhood this morning and it was running better than ever. rite about the time I drove in to the driveway, upon return, the car started to run poorly. once I parked my heart stopped beating when I saw water gushing out of the air breather.

Im not a mechanic but I think that this is real bad.

any suggestions?

Forrest


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 12:48 pm:

Sounds like it just boiled over. Not uncommon or necessarily indicative of a big problem. I'd re-fill the radiator to the appropriate level, start it up and run it a little, then check the mixture to be sure it's not too lean and the spark to be sure it's not to retarded. These are probably the most common suspects.

Good Luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 12:53 pm:

I'm confused! T's don't have a breather. Where was the water coming from?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 12:56 pm:

Forrest - was it coming out the radiator overflow tube? I'm with Henry on this one. You might of had it overfull. Mine runs with the coolant just above the radiator tubes - if I fill it farther than that, it pukes it out every time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 12:57 pm:

I assume you've cleaned out all the water passages. The two obvious possibilities are bad radiator and spark setting.
In ancient radiators, in many cases, the decades of vibration have loosened the vanes so they no longer have solid contact with the tubes, so the heat from the coolant in the tubes isn't transferred to the vanes and into the passing air. The bandaid a lot of people stick on this is a water pump. The real cure is a new radiator. If you want a strictly original show car you can get the original round tube type. If it's just a driver and not for show, you can spend less and get the flat tube type. Only T guys will know the difference. Berg radiators have a good reputation, and as far as I know the best prices.

The wrong setting of the spark lever also can cause overheating.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 01:02 pm:

Henry and Greg are correct. Even a good radiator will spit out some coolant if it's overfilled. Perfectly normal. My answers apply in cases where you get home with the car at a furious boil and steam shooting out of the overflow pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Forrest Scott on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 01:26 pm:

thanks for the input y'all.

I have attached a picture. I have the Modern Carb from Macs installed with the recommended air cleaner.

I tried to put water into the radiator and it flows rite out the side of the carb where the filter goes..carb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 01:32 pm:

Hope it is just a blown Head gasket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 01:37 pm:

If it's coming out of the carb, the head needs to come off and see if its cracked letting the water drain out of the head around an open intake valve and down the intake manifold. See if your oil is white.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 01:44 pm:

Could be a freeze plug.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 02:28 pm:

If its a bad head gasket or cracked head it should be steaming out the exhaust. If your running with antifreeze it would be more pronounced with a white fog with a sweet smell coming from the exhaust.
I don't recommend starting it back up to find out though, you stated that the water flows straight through and runs out the carb that tells me it is a blown gasket or a cracked head and the fluid in the chamber is leaking back through an open intake valve.
I would pull the head the cylinder that you find that is nice and clean will be where you'll find the problem ( blown gasket or cracked head) I have a couple high heads if you find yours is bad as I'm sure most of the other T guys on here do.... Someone on the classifieds has an aluminum head for $230 as well...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 02:47 pm:

Now that I realize (I think) that it's not the overflow tube but something above the carb I must agree with Orlando. A freeze plug would be my first guess. particularly since it happened so suddenly.

Some of the other things mentioned above are certainly possibilities, but if it's just a freeze plug it's an easy and cheap fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 02:49 pm:

The real question is the water coming out of the carb. or above it from The freeze plug? Before you pull the head check if the plug just below the exhaust and intake manifold is the culprit. The water would run down the side of the block and all over the carb.

As my old Doc. friend says: "If you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras"!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Forrest Scott on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 03:46 pm:

thank guys. when I opened the petcock on the oil pan, the oil is milky white.

the water is running through the carb. Its not coming ot of the freeze plug.

the car has a bad radiator but I can usually get a few miles out of it. I did not think that I would need to change it since I have been fine tooning and breaking in the engine a few trips around the block each day.
The radiator is original to the car. should I send it somewhere to have it rebuilt or replace it?

back to the head, once the screws are out, whats the best way to pull it off?



Forrest


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 03:58 pm:

Lift it up. Pry slightly of needed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 04:29 pm:

Some people have had good luck taking an old radiator to a shop and having it re-cored. Others have gotten burned (boiled?). You can gamble that it will get fixed. If you win, you save money. If you lose, you spend money for the failed repair plus the new radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 04:29 pm:

IMHO replacing the radiator will be better and cheaper in the long run than recoring. If it just has a leak you can get fixed for 20 bucks, fix it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 05:17 pm:

Forrest,
Rather the worry about the radiator it may be best to fix the head, head gasket, or block(?) water leak first. If it is leaking so that the water surface gets below the top of the radiator core, the best radiator in the world will do you no good. Without a water pump, there is no cooling if the water is too low.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 05:21 pm:

Forrest.......there's a big difference between a leak, or two, and shot.......which is it?
I'd stay as far away from a rad shop as possible.
Surely you must know someone who KNOWS how to solder. I bolded knows as there is an enormous difference between someone who CAN solder and one who KNOWS how to solder.
Bummer with other leak....... :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 05:37 pm:

I don't know whether or not you pulled the head yet, but if you haven't pulled it, fill the radiator and take out the spark plugs. Then you can look in with a flashlight and see which cylinder is leaking. The above is not necessary, but it will make finding the source of the problem easier. It is very likely the head gasket, because of the volume of water coming out would be more than with a crack in the head or block, unless a piece has completely rusted out of the head. Fix the leak first, change the oil, and pull the inspection plate under the rods so you can clean out the dips. Then put in new oil and water and check. Be sure to re-torque the head after it has been warmed up. When you are sure the leak is fixed, change the oil again, and you should be OK.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Forrest Scott on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 08:16 pm:

thanks for all of the input guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 08:35 pm:

There are radiator shops and radiator shops. Some are barely able to replace a radiator some have one or tow folks who can actually do excellent radiator repairs. A chain shop is more likely to be a "replace only" while an independent shop that's been around for a while and has an old guy out back in worn coveralls may just be a treasure.

I've had a brass radiator repaired twice (I was abusing it on a speedster) and two other radiators re-cored. If you have good tanks and can find a good shop there is nothing at all wrong with repairing a radiator. If there are any restoration shops or custom car shops in your area, you might ask them who they go to for repairs and/or custom radiator work. That's what I did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

It would be best to get a new Bergs radiator.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 09:26 pm:

Well,I would adapt a cooling system pressure tester to fit the cap of the radiator.Aint saying it would be simple,but should be doable.Then i would plug the little pipe on the radiator.Then I would apply just a little pressure,4 to 5 pounds.just enough to make the water want to find it's way out.I dont know the history of your engine,but i had a block once that was busted all the way accross the middle,above the carb rod.the crack best I could tell was near the intake of 1 of the cylinders.Not meaning to skeer ye but a pressure test of this type might save some trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 01:11 pm:

Forrest,

Don't even think about a radiator yet. Figure out your water in the engine problem first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 02:19 pm:

Don't run it any more until you replace the head gasket or fix the problem (cracked block or whatever). Running with coolant in the oil will destroy the babbitt bearings in a hurry, if they're not toast already.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 02:20 pm:

Talking about radiators. I had one that I was going to use on my '19 Touring. I took it to a reputable shop and he said "NO GOOD". So I just stopped there. I about a year later to it to another shop and said let me know what you think, well the next day they called and it was ready, the the charge was good, somewhere in the $40.00 range and has never leaked a drop, but will boil over if to much water is added. Just my thoughts. Check and repair if a good core.
Best to everyone on the Forum

Bill D
Redding, Ca


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Forrest Scott on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:03 pm:

well, I pulled the head today and in inside of the raditor must be really bad cause I was able to shake a lot of rusty chucks out of the head.?.?

I found a tiny hole in head above the second piston from the front. tiny, real small. less than 1/16"

is that repairable or should I get a new head?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:23 pm:

Forrest, do the dirty and tap around that hole with a ball peen hammer.
The hole COULD be a casting flaw or the head has seen the last of its days.
Heads are too cheap too fool with it and risk another leak.
If it was some "one of" thing it might be worth taking a shot at fixing it but not for a run-of-the-mill T head.
I say this a professional welder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:24 pm:

TO dang it......grrrrr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:29 pm:

Forrest Scott:

I would never attempt to repair a cracked high head they are too numerous. I use good high heads for weights on my 4 inch tubes when I irrigate. Every welder will tell you they can repair your head but why do so many leak after a repair. There will be someone in your club that has some spare good high heads, they multiply like fleas.

This gasket came out of a blown head. the head had been milled two hundred thousands. and the block forty thousands.

blown head gasket


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