I really didn't need this.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: I really didn't need this.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 04:39 pm:

Water, water, every where, Nor any drop to drink.

It seems that as of today I'm the ancient mariner of the Model T world, surrounded by Model T Fords but none I can drive. The roadster has its head off and is waiting for me to buy a cherry picker and and install new rings and do some other work on it. The Fordor is still waiting for me to finish installing a new timing gear. And now the touring has gone on the disabled list.

When I got home from town yesterday it was steaming and the coolant was low. So I got a hose and filled the radiator before putting the car away. This morning I found a large puddle on the floor and water dripping from the bottom of the radiator near the outlet. When I opened the petcock to drain it I had to keep a wire jiggling in the opening to keep it flowing. When I got the radiator off, I found a big glob of "stuff" in the outlet and the pipe.







I really don't know what I have here. It looks like dirt/sand, but doesn't feel gritty. And I wonder how so much of it got in there.

Anyway, the radiator is in town at the radiator shop to see if the pro can patch it up, and I'm about to install vinegar in the block and head. If this was an original round tube radiator, I'd already be on the phone to Berg's, but it's a later honeycomb type, so I'll see if it works OK with the leak fixed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 04:57 pm:

Put a water pump on it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Green - So Cal on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 05:08 pm:

Ground black pepper is my bet! Use it all the time.

Just a spoonful will do ya!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 05:20 pm:

When it's brown flush it down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 05:28 pm:

Mike beat me to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 05:39 pm:

HI, Looks like sand and grit coming out of the block. Flush the block out and use a little soluble oil. It will keep things from rusting. It will turn the water white. About 2 ounces will be plenty. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 05:42 pm:

Robert what is soluble oil ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 05:52 pm:

Using straight water Steve? A good flush and some anti freeze with additives in it is in order. That's block rust and stuff coming from your hose. Well or city water?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 06:53 pm:

Seems like the open cars are protesting the new sedan on the premises.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 07:13 pm:

I don't know if it was smart, or stupid, but I put a gallon of vinegar in mine and ran it until pretty hot, then flushed it, ran it again, flushed, and put 50/50 antifreeze water in it. I used an old radiator for then, not wanting my new one to see all that stuff.

Of course in this case I think I put a strong volume of water into the top head connection for a while before doing anything else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 07:25 pm:

Soluble oil is used in machine shop and it is mixed with water. It is used instead of cutting oil as it is easy to blow off and the residue will keep the part from rusting. Antifreeze is bad when it get into the drinking water supply. And when your car boils we all know where the antifreeze goes. No problem with soluble oil. You can get at NAPA auto parts and most hardware stores. Its been around since before time and works great. But run what ever you want, Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

1: What does the oil do to the hoses?
2: A layer of oil on the metal might actually inhibit heat transfer.
3: Why is oil in the water supply better than anti freeze?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 08:02 pm:

One of the old books calls for horse manure to stop the leaks... May hafta hit one of the local stables... ws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucqfcW1hrTk&feature=youtu.be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 08:49 pm:

Flush, Flush and more Flush. My 1940 International TD9 radiator looked like that... I ran dishwasher detergent in it (a cup) for a week then flushed it a few times. Runs cool and no more crud!

The dishwasher detergent has a slight amount of phosphoric acid, which dissolves lime and rust. I filled it with 50% antifreeze and it looks like new when I look in the radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

Bill Stephan,

That being the case I finally have something to offer the T world. All the stop leak material one can want. For free. Extraction tools provided in the barn.

Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

The soluble oil being spoken of is the same if not similar to what is in antifreeze the only difference is it is not as strong a rust inhibitor as what is in modern antifreeze.

When antifreeze goes bad it isn't the antifreeze properties that crap out but the rust inhibiting properties that do (oil). Heating, cooling, heating, cooling is what eventually cooks off the oil.

If I were you Steve I'd run some modern radiator flush for about an hour then drain and refill with a 50/50 mix. The flush will probably 'help' reveal any weak areas that leak but that isn't a bad thing. You can epoxy them closed if real bad then run the car back to operating temp and add just about a half bottle of Block Seal but only when the radiator is up to temp and thermosyphon is in effect. Otherwise it will settle and not move. Did this to mine and it works great! Restored that old radiator to new again :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

Has anyone ever tried to flush out a block (assuming the head is removed and radiator disconnected) by using a pressure washer?

Would there be any danger to the block's integrity doing this?

Jes wonderin'.....

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 09:08 pm:

People often put things like oatmeal or black pepper or eggs in their radiators to stop leaks. Steve it appears you have a balanced breakfast there.

None of that stuff works. You need to pull the head, clean out all the crap from the block, and flush the radiator real well too. Then use a 50 / 50 mix of anti freeze and water to be sure you don't ruin the block and / or radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

I don't know about the water in your area, but if it is either acid or alkaline, it will either eat the metal or cover it with scale. Best water to use is distilled water. Costs a bit more, but with a good radiator, no problem. I recently finished a 5 day tour about 350 miles and I didn't have to add any water to mine. I have a brassworks radiator. I use 50% old type green antifreeze and 50% distilled water.

The problem looks like the sediment from years of not draining the block. That mixed with a little oil which has seeped in through the head gasket. Maybe a little stop leak or pepper added.

Best to put the hose in the upper hose and let it run for a while. Better still remove the head and take something like an old speedometer cable and run through the water passages of the block and head and then flush out with the hose until the water runs clear.

Your radiator shop might be able to clean the radiator. Honeycomb radiators cannot be rodded out, so they will need to use some other method of cleaning it. If they can't clean it, you will need a new radiator.

If you don't have a water pump, this mess might not have gotten into the radiator, but a water pump will very likely stir up the mess and suspend some of it in the water which will plug the radiator. Don't install the cleaned or new radiator until you are sure the block is completely clean of any particles which are not attached firmly to the inside of the water jacket.

What a mess! Sorry that it had to happen.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 11:11 pm:

Buy a jug of CLR or CRL (calcium, lime, rust).
get it at the hardware store or building supply.
Mix it 1:4 with water.
Pour it in the radiator and engine.
Let it set 20 minutes and drain and flush.

There is no GD excuse in today's world for filling any car or truck cooling system with straight water and forgetting them until someting happens.
I know guys with nice expensive old cars who ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT PUT ANTIFREEZE, SOLUBLE OIL or RUST INHIBITOR in their cars. Foolish. Stupid.
The Horseless Carriage guys around here know better than to put that "crap" in their valuable cars. They know because some other idiot told them so. Anyway, what in hell do engineers, auto manufacturers and mechanics know that your wife's brother's neighbor doesn't?
Last year I spent most of a year rebuilding the engine, trans, diff. and body & paint & electrical on a '35 Ford convertible sedan.
I gave it a gallon of anti-freeze, a half pint of soluble oil and two bottles of Water Wetter.
So last fall what did the owner do one cold evening? He drained the whole d$%^&n thing on the ground! Since then he's been running it on straight water and bitching that it sometimes runs hot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:56 am:

Aaron, you've sure been on a roll lately. Plain water only is crazy. Does the '35 Ford have special cooling need that require coolant and water wetter ??? Soluble oil is self explanatory.
Thanks, George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:58 am:

Antifreeze is cheaper than a radiator or a cracked block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Pacoima, CA on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 02:31 am:

I ran straight water in my T and ended up with a "slurp up tube" that looked a lot like Steve's did in his pic. When I refilled the radiator, I made sure I also put in Antifreeze. I've noticed something it does with the antifreeze it didn't do with plain water, a weeping leak, not really a bad one it just weeps out from somewhere near the top, looked for it but can't really tell where it's coming from, doesn't affect how it runs (runs cool), so I'll probably not do anything with it real soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 10:25 am:

Steve, If the head is off you don't really need a cherry picker to do rings... a creeper will help but isn't mandatory.

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 10:35 am:

Don't use anti-freeze in a brass radiator car. I tried it once, and it got hot once and got all over the upper radiator tank. It left spots, which are almost impossible to remove. I went back to water soluble oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:06 am:

Steve, I'm beginning to get the impression that you get a T, get it running and the drive until something happens! That's a large build up that probably took a while to form. LOL. That being said the picture shows a gizmo I worked up and resembles something I saw as a kid when working at a station back in Brooklyn in the early 60's. It's a rubber bung with a water hose connection and an air pressure connection. Get the water flowing through the garden hose hook up and give light blasts of air. You'll be amazed at what comes out. I usually do the block & rad separately. When you get no more scale that sucker is CLEAN.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:14 am:

Don't use extended life antifreeze in old cars.

Information was published in the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Club Newsletter concerning the use of “extended life” antifreeze in cars over
10 years old.
In a nutshell--
don’t do it!
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should an “Extended Life” antifreeze, which utilizes Organic Additive Technology (OAT, H-OAT, or N-OAT) as
one of its chemicals, ever be used in our cars over 10 years old. It attacks the gaskets and gasket cements in our cars, causing major leaks
and forcing ultra-expensive repairs. The “Silver Ghost Association” Rolls Royce people have documented massive cooling system failures
apparently caused by this anti-freeze product.
Antifreeze that can be used safely in our cars uses older-fashioned Inorganic Additive Technology (IAT) additive.
You cannot tell by the color of the antifreeze if it’s safe to use.
Also, the product may be labelled “Safe for Older Cars”--meaning 10 years
old at most
. Brands to be AVOIDED are all Prestone lines and Zerex’s G-05 in the Gold-color container. Avoid any “extended-life” antifreeze.
None of us wants to pull and rebuild our cars’ engines.
Acceptable brands are Peak, Peak’s HD Product “Sierra,” and Zerex Original Green in the WHITE container.
If any of the OAT, H-OAT, or N-OAT products are in your car the cooling system should promptly be drained--radiator
and block-- the
system flushed thoroughly, and IAT antifreeze installed.
So what’s cooling your antique car ...IAT or OAT type antifreeze? What’s the difference, you ask? To be honest, most people don’t realize
there were different types of antifreeze compounds and just shop for brands and price.They figure it’s all the same stuff just different colors.
Well, there IS a difference and it DOES matter to all of us that have water cooled antiques.
We need to avoid using OAT type antifreeze. Even though it is designed for a longer service life, we shouldn’t use it. It includes an inhibitor
that attacks silicone compounds that are frequently used in gasket sealants. In addition, this formula also goes after lead based products like
solder and babbit (used in early bearings), some yellow metals that may be in cam bearings and radiators, and conventional gasket and seal
type packing materials. Our old rides may contain some, or all, of these materials so using OAT formula antifreeze could result in an expensive
headache down the road. We need to be looking for IAT type antifreeze to protect and preserve our investments.
Rather than spending hours and hours doing research to go into more detail, our time is better spent using the internet to gather useful
information written by folks much more knowledgeable than we are. If you want to know more, check out the links below.
Hemmings antifreeze article • Popular Mechanics • Motor Age Article • Another Motor Age Article
AACA Forum on the subject • AACA Forum on Extended life antifreeze
URGENT WARNING--EXTENDED LIFE ANTI-FREEZE
IAT type antifreeze products
to seek out
IAT or Inorganic Acid Technology
Ethylene glycol based, lasts for 3 years
or 36K miles, color = green
Peak, Peak HD Sierra, Zerex Original
OAT or Organic Acid Technology
Propylene glycol based good for
3-5 years, color = orange or
yellow (less poisonous than IAT)
Anything labeled “extended life” or “extended service”, Dex-Cool (GM brand),
Zerex G-05, Zerex Asian Vehicle, Most Prestone products
HOAT or Hybrid Organic Acid Technology
color = yellow or, possibly, green, pink,
blue, red or orange


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard, San Buenaventura, Calif on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:41 am:

Steve,
I don't want to hijack your thread -- and I'm sick like a dog right now -- but yesterday I saw off (literally) the water hose on the bottom of my '20 and took photos along the way.
Will start separate post today, titled "Holy mother of God."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:47 am:

Regular Prestone or Peak is green Ethylene Glycol, and should be used in your Model T. Don't use anything that says Propylene Glycol or anything other than Ethylene Glycol.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:48 am:

People piss & moan about $4 a gallon gasoline but I notice they have no problem paying $4 a gallon for water.
When you buy the 50/50 mix anti-freeze you are paying $4 a gallon for the water that is in it.

I put Water Wetter in the '35 Ford (see my above post) because the engine was tight, freshly rebuilt, the weather was hot and I just wanted some extra insurance.

Martin's water weep will seal up and not cause trouble if he puts in some Bars Leaks while the water is hot and he drives the car for a few miles.

If anti-freeze gets on the outside of your brass radiator and you're not overfilling it you've got other problems too.
I've been on many tours the last 30 years with as many as 10 brass T's with anti-freeze in them and never heard about any getting it on the outside of the radiator. I know it is a problem to clean off though if it ever does get on the outside.

Doing the right thing for a T cooling system is the easiest thing to do, yet there are so many problems. Why? No thermostat, no water pump, no heater valve to leak, no fan switch.
I am most positive I have not added anything to my T radiator in the last 12 years, except once when I put in about a quart of water. Although I only have driven it about a hundred miles a year in the last 5 years. Before that it saw maybe 300 miles a year.
I lost some water going down steep hills in Oakland through the overflow pipe.
A GOOD fan belt is very important. One that doesn't slip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:15 pm:

I've asked this question before and here it comes again: What is it about this car that makes some guys experiment or act like it's actually the 1920's with nothing better available? Especially when it comes to fluids. Any fluid: Coolant, engine oil and differential lube. Guys do things to their T's they'd never do to their modern cars. What's up with that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 01:41 pm:

Steve Jeff:

I would almost bet that brown stuff in the bottom of your radiator pipe is BARRS LEAK.
Bar Leak does that, goes to the bottom and COAGULATES into a MASS. Someone on this forum once said, his dad owned a radiator shop and he loved Barrs Leak because it brought him so much work.

A930


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 03:14 pm:

Yes Dave I remember that stuff now. I used to sell it at the service station but would never use it myself. It just looked wrong, like clumps of sawdust and dirt floating in some kind of molasses looking soluble oil. YUK not for me though. On the other note wouldn't this new AF be okay if you have used modern seals, gaskets and sealants? Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 03:37 pm:

I drain and flush mine in September every year. Refill with 50/50 prestone and water Wetter, and never have a problem. Every year at that time I remove the very bottom hoses while I flush. Dont use Barrs leak, and dont use a pump. Pumps refill the radiator faster than the radiator can disapate. If you need a pump its because you needed a radiator and water Wetter. I bought Brass works radiators, both model T's and Both Model A's, 10 years or so ago on the A's, Three years ago on both T's I never ever have water problems and no overheating, and it gets hot at August parades here in Cincy. My Dad had nothing but headaches with all these cars until I went with clean new radiators, and kept up the good honest maintenece. Its really worth the effort. Prestone is not that expensive, radiators, yes, but one time and if you keep them clean they will last. My 31 model A always belched and overheated until I bought a good new radiator. The local shops cleaned the old one numerous times, but we never had luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 05:20 pm:

If coolant won't flow through the radiator as quickly as a pump can deliver there is a problem with the radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Pacoima, CA on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 06:25 pm:

Aaron, thanks for the info about Bars Leaks, George Clipner and I searched for that blasted leak for quite a while and could only conclude that it was somewhere in the upper part of the radiator. I'll try anything that sounds easier and cheaper than taking it to a radiator shop. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 08:55 pm:

I liked Charlie's flushing tool, so I made one.



After an overnight vinegar soak I gave the car a CLR treatment.

http://youtu.be/RnOZ2MZt5FY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 09:17 pm:

Just a note on useage of the tool Steve: you may want to restrict the out flowing water a bit as it seems to work best when the block is full. Don't restrict the radiator and use light blasts of air in both cases (especially the rad). try it out after your treatement. I think you'll be surprised.

Martin: I believe there are two types of Bar's leak. One has the heavy granules ad there is a lighter version. Go for the lighter one. The movement in a T system isn't enough to distribute the heavy stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:09 pm:

I like the way you operate Steve.
You don't look at all your problems and make federal cases out of them.......just shut up and DO....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:41 pm:

Well, somebody's got to fix it, and Daisy doesn't seem interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:45 pm:

Craig - exactly my point, reread my message, it says if you need a pump its because you needed a radiator. An old clogged radiator will not disapate the coolant as fast as the pump will feed it. Im not debating the use of a pump, but it isnt going to help an old tired clogged radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 01:52 am:

I forgot to add that Bars Leak was a terrible culprit for pluging off the heater cores in vehicles it was used in. They don't sell this stuff anymore do they?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 07:44 am:

Steve

Thanks for the really fine video. But I have a question.

It wasn't possible to tell from the video, but were you able to see if any extra gunk came out of the cooling passages when you were flushing with the flushing tool as opposed to just using water alone ?

Thanks
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 09:14 am:

No, it was all going out on the ground. I should have had a container underneath to catch any debris that came out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

I just made a slight change to the head/block flusher.


I used a 1/8" bit to drill a small air vent. The theory is that it will let enough air escape to allow the rising water to fill the block and head all the way up to the plug, but is small enough to retain enough of a compressed air burst to force the water out of the inlet. When water starts to squirt out of the vent, you hit the air.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 03:57 pm:

I restrict the outlet by pinching down on an old hose connected to the outlet side of whatever your flushing. It has to be full of water for the air to work."Scrubbing bubbles" to steal a phrase.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 04:08 pm:

The vent works. It lets the water fill all the way up to the plug before you hit the air. Here's the video.

http://youtu.be/TJ3nkPm87X0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 04:11 pm:

That's great. Works fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 05:46 pm:

Here is the real deal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 06:05 pm:

That's close to what we had way back when Jeff but the tapered part was rubber. One size fits all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 07:28 pm:

Later I'll have a video of the radiator flush, but I want to show this and see if anybody has a suggestion.


The stuff inside the radiator has a greasy, oily feel. I think I got all the chunks and globs out, but there's still a coating of this stuff on the inside. Any suggestions on how to get rid of it? A mixture of vinegar and dish soap and a flush with hot water got the big stuff, but the coating remains.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 07:33 pm:

Simple Green and let it sit or an enzymatic degreaser as used by restraunts to clean the grease traps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 07:51 pm:

Oh and if you had not thought of it use a reverse flow direction to assist in clearing chunks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 08:01 pm:

Steve,

When I started to rebuild my Ruckstell, I sent out the housings to get "Professionally Cleaned". In reality, the only thing that got cleaned was my wallet.

When I got home, I looked down the tubes and found gobs of old rear end lube still in the tubes. Instead of bringing them back to the guy in Sants Fe Springs, I said "Screw it" and flushed them myself.

I went to a plumbing supply house and bought two "Dynamite Plugs" of the correct size to fit the inner ends of the tubes. I then stood the housings up, ring and pinion ends down with the plugs tightly in place at the ends of the tubes.

I then poured ZEP orange cleaner down each tube and filled them up as far as the grease holes for the Hyatt bearings. After a week or so, I put a funnel into the mouth of the cleaner jug with an old rag inside it as a filter and poured the used cleaner back into the jug.

The stuff that flowed out of those tubes was unbelievable. So much for a professional cleaning. I don't see why this method wouldn't work for your radiator and the head/block. Even the citrus cleaner should be safe on the radiator innards.

Good Luck,
Mike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 08:10 pm:

Water soluble oil is commonly sold in auto parts store as "water pump lubricant" additive for you radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 08:12 pm:

If that is oil I would recommend DAWN dish detergent........same stuff they use for de-oiling wildlife from oil spills.
An alternative, although a bit harsh but extremely effective, is a weak solution of potassium hydroxide.......lye.
The boiler on the 60 hp Case steam engine I once owned was ALL oiled up on the inside because the previous owners would float a bunch of drain oil on top of the water before they drained it and it WOULD NOT steam worth a crap.
The recipe was 1 pint of liquid potassium hydroxide per 100 gallons of water and bring the water to NEAR boiling but not BOILING and hold it for two hours.
You can't beleive the crap that came out of there when I drained it. It really did the trick.
This is same process used in most new boiler installations to remove oils and whatnot from the manufacturing process.
Just flush it well when you're done and I know you CAN because you made the nifty rig for yourself....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 08:26 pm:

Steve... make up a 10 gallon wash pan with a small circ pump hooked up to the radiator or the block. I would do them seperately. Make a solution of anything from Dawn soap to muriatic acid (diluted!) and let it flush (recirc) for a few hours. Heat the solution to 150F ish for better results. One of the stronger caustic solutions will take the rust out with it, but if THATS whats holding back a leak, youll have a water letter outer... ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 08:40 pm:

Castrol super clean... fill radiator with 75% solution. Soak over night, use only hot water to flush... voila! Clean right down to the copper! Used it on my tractors , 41 chev. truck and 16 T works as well as radiator shop flush!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick J wegelin on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 06:28 pm:

About 30 yrs ago I had a chrysler newport that was overheating.
My dad told me about how one time in the late 40's him and my mom were driving over the hills to Corning ny and his 36 ford was overheating pretty bad. he coasted down a hill into a town and picked up a box of Borax and threw a cup in radiator.
He claimed it boiled out the clog. Well I tried it in the newport with great success and just about forgot about it til reading this thread.
Well I have a crappy old 1921 radiator on my t depot hack and it runs kinda hot. been meaning to bite the bullet and get a bergs, but $ kinda tight. I picked up Borax on way home from work fri, threw a cup in and took a 30 mile ride today. I could swear it feels cooler already, I'll flush the crap out this week. Me and 2 grown nephews driving to finger lakes in the T next month and camp out. 3 of us with camping gear is kinda heavy load. may still order a bergs. But so far the old wives tale (or dads Tale) of borax seems to be helping!
patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 07:31 pm:

Using borax to clean out a cooling system isn't an old e=wive's tale.......it has been recommended since the earliest days of gas tractors and cars too I suspect.
The suggested recipe is 2 lbs. of borax WASHING SODA, NOT bicarb, in three gallons of water.
Get it good and hot, let it run for a while and thoroughly flush.
But if it IS oil nothing works like the lye treatment I previously mentioned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 07:39 pm:

I'm thinking Washing Soda is Sodium Carbonate. Borax is Sodium Borate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 07:50 pm:

Is it the same as "20 mule team boraxo"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 08:24 pm:

Boraxo is a hand soap. Bicarbonate of Soda is something else. Washing Soda is what you want, and it is generally under the trade name of Borax or Arm & Hammer. It is found in the Laundry Products aisle, but not in the hoity-toidy grocery stores. Every Wal-Mart I have noticed has it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 08:25 pm:

^ Yup Erich....... :-)

http://www.20muleteamlaundry.com/about


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 10:08 pm:

I'm trying to find the post I did about a year ago where I described using oxalic acid (wood bleach) to clean my radiator and block but can''t find it because I'm on my iPad while on the bus traveling home.
It worked great and removed all kinds of rust scale. I previously tried vinegar with limited success


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 10:28 pm:

Fred,
Here is your previous post:

By Fred Dimock Newfields NH on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 08:50 am:

To follow up on Rob's comment - a good cleaning of the cooling system is in order.

I used a mixture of Oxalic acid - 3/4 cup per gallon of water and ran the vehicle off and on for about 2 hours to keep things warm and the acid most active.
The T takes two gallons.
Then I let it cool, drained the system, refilled with a cup of baking soda per gallon to neutrilize the acid.
Then drained it agian, flushed it with water, and then did the antifreeze/water thing.

Oxalic acid used be sold by Prestone and GM as a heavy duty radiator cleaner.
GM specified it to clean the Corvette when folks used the wrong antifreeze.
Oxalic acid can be purchased on EBay for around $10 per pound which is enough for a good cleaning.
It is also known as wood bleach.
Arm and Hammer baking soda comes from your local grocery store.

From:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/236833.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 05:16 am:

There is a difference between borax and washing soda (and baking soda for that matter).

Borax is sodium borate. It's ph is something like 9.5. 20 Mule Team is a brand name of borax. And as far as I know, no other product is sold under that brand name.

Washing soda is sodium carbonate, also called soda ash. It's ph is something like 11.1. Arm and Hammer is a brand name of washing soda as well as baking soda. However, baking soda is NOT the same as washing soda (or borax). Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate with a ph of something like 8.5.

We are talking about three different chemicals here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 09:46 pm:

After reading some of the comments above I tried a soak with Simple Green (which is now orange) and flushed the radiator with hot water.

http://youtu.be/XSLn4KeT3do

I got the car put back together yesterday and today I drove it to town for shopping and errands. Apparently the cleaning had the desired effect. The long climb up from the river didn't produce any overheating this time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:34 pm:

Do yourself a favor, flush the darn thing a few times, pour a gallon of white vinegar in the radiator run it for about 15 min or so. Let it sit in the radiator overnight and flush it all out. Vinegar works great and its cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Dowgin on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 06:01 pm:

Why should a Model T owner not use Propylene Glycol as coolant? What about the Propylene is bad for my Model T?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 06:38 pm:

Steve,

Glad you got it back on the road. I would be hesitant to do the vinegar trick. I did this on my TT on the recommendation of a forum member. I'm sure it would be ok on an otherwise good system, but it made mine leak like a sieve. Perhaps "scale" was what was plugging the holes in my radiator? Perhaps the acetic acid ate holes through some very thin brass? I don't know. I'm not upset at the guy who suggested it, and I realize if my system had not been marginal to begin with, it would probably been ok. But the fact of the matter is, if I had not done the vinegar trick, I could probably have coaxed a a couple more years out of the radiator. Instead, it was all downhill after that. On the bright side, I ended up with a new Berg's and am quite happy with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 - 03:42 pm:

OK, so if I read this properly, 1) I can use "Sierra" anti-freez by Peak? That is the closest I can find around here. 2) Is it ok to flush the motor and radiator with "CLR"? (and at what strength). 3) should I use "Water Wetter"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike bartlett Oviedo,Fl on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 - 05:39 pm:

The tool Steve made looks like a weapon I had in Viet Nam, yikes! ( I'm goin to make one 2 morrow)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sam Humphries on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 - 05:40 pm:

I used C.L.R. on my radiator, let it set for several hours and back flushed. Radiator is brass. This is rig I built to flush both block and radiator. The funny looking black hose is a left over from a front load washer repair. I place it over the neck of the radiator to direct the flow away from the brass. I also put it over the outlet housing and connect a length of PVC to the other end to take it away from the engine compartment. Threaded PVC fitting is right size for hose on T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sam Humphries on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 - 05:44 pm:

Not having any luck posting picture. One more try.flush


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson (Aust) on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 05:57 am:

Considering Stan Howe's warning on using organic anti-freeze, it got me investigating my T's coolant.
Bearing in mind, that because of where I live, anti-freeze isn't a requirement, but a good anti-corrosion additive is. I found in the information sheets of the Australian made "Penrite Classic Car Coolant" these words.
"A colourless, hybrid-organic, non-glycol based corrosion inhibitor designed specifically for use in veteran, Edwardian, vintage and classic car cooling systems".
Could I have your opinions please? Should I continue using it or should I ditch it and use just soluble oil?
Thanks & Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dysart - SoCal on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 10:14 am:

Hi Rob,

According to the warning that Stan posted in this thread on May 1, the coolants to avoid are OAT, N-OAT, and H-OAT. Your label describes an H-OAT (hybrid organic). Apparently, it's the "organic" part of the chemistry that attacks older gaskets and seals. The recommended products are "inorganic" or IAT.

So it sounds like your coolant is not one that should be used on older cars, regardless of how the maker describes it. If it was in any of my cars other than my '07 Honda, I would drain, flush and replace with an IAT coolant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darin Hull on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

Steve,

I like you posting the youtube video... great idea and an effective way to share/communicate.

Darin


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