Repairing a cut off Ruckstell Axle

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Repairing a cut off Ruckstell Axle
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stuart Wheeler on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 10:58 pm:

I recently came across a Ruckstell axle (car type) that someone, years ago, cut the two outer ends off to shorten the axle and then put chain sprockets on both ends to build a tractor. I was wondering if anyone has tried to remove the axle tubes from the pumpkin/clamshell. I'm assuming it would involve drilling out the rivets, heating the casing, and pressing out the tube, but I can't find any information that anyone has done this before. Are these joint sealed or braised somehow to keep the oil in? I was thinking of replacing the tube with a Ford factory tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 11:23 pm:

I bought a Ruckstell that had bent tubes.
I don't know how they did it but they were both bent about half an inch.
I drilled out the rivets and heated it up and it came out pretty easy.
No braze or anything.
Shortened a standard tube...stuck it in with a BFH and block of wood...aligned it and drilled the rivet holes.
I tried several ways to re-rivet it with no success so I made bolts with a rivet-like head and tightened up a nut on the inside.
I think I used loctite on it all...been 10 years ago.
Working great all these years and it gets driven a lot.
The right side is just a standard Ford hsg...but you already knew that.
Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 11:24 pm:

Chaffins does it daily


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 11:41 pm:

Stuart Wheeler"

I have done many, many of them on both ends. I prefer just doing the backing plate but it sounds like yours is too short. I have also done the inside pumkin. I used to change the ends for two venders that always seemed to get an order for the opposite one that they had.

It is best if you have a collar that fits around the tube, other wise there is no way that I can see to press the tube out. I will try and take a picture of a collar tomorrow.

Also you will need a slug that just fits the tube so you can press on it. This is something you can make on your lathe.

A853

One other thing that is a must is a very heavy duty press. I use a 50 ton press.
You will have to drill out the rivets ahead of time.

I have never heated the pumkin or the backing plates.

Important: before you weld or rivet the ruckstell back together install the torque tube and the rear radious rods. The rods should match the FRONT end of the tourque tube. If you don't do that but just quess you will have the radius rods sticking in the air or drooping below the torque tube FRONT end.

By the way throw the right side of the Ruckstell Housing in the scrap pile. You will only have to change the left side of the Ruckstell housing.

I wish you were closer I would like to remove the tube for you. I really enjoy working on Ruckstells.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 04:38 am:

I found it easy to weld on another housing section to make it the correct length. It is not difficult to keep it straight with correct preparation, fixturing and welding sequence. I have saved several ruckstell housings (T and TT).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:31 am:

I find it far easier to cut the tube off so the damaged part is gone and just weld a new end from a doner housing on. I bevel the ends, wire feed it and machine it smooth in the lathe & maybe a little grinding. It's a couple hour deal at the most. The first one I did I built a set of jigs to align the center pumpkin and the outer housing -- the jigs bolt on to both and set on my welding table so it is flat. As you may or may not have thought about, the inside of the tube is the same size as the outside of a compressed sleeve. Grind the tit off an old sleeve and install it in one tube end and then slide the other tube end on. It aligns it so the outside of the tube is even all the way around and doing it that way you can leave a sixteenth or so for the weld to penetrate on the first pass.

I just whack the tube with my chop saw, measure another doner end with the backing plate and the tube, clean out the inside of the tube with a wire brush and sanding drum, bevel the ends with the hand grinder with a flap disk, bolt the jigs on to the parting line and the end plate and another jig I have to make sure the tube is straight, tack it in a 4 spots, weld it up so the weld is a little proud of the tube, grind it down -- or machine it down and it's a done deal. I put the new housing on my straightening machine and check them and it's ready to use.

I don't think you ever get them as tight after you've pressed the tube out and another back in but then I don't have a big press and have actually never changed a tube so it's just speculation on my part. I'm sure Dave's work fine.

We all have different methods, this one works for me. I've made some wide track Ruckstells and this is the only way I could figure to do it without having original housings. By cutting the tubes and welding them you still only have one weld on each side, just make the tubes 2 inches longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:44 am:

What I meant was that I find it far easier to weld on another section as John does, than pressing the tube out and re-riveting as Dave does.

This is a set of wide track ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stuart Wheeler on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 09:49 pm:

These sound like great ideas on how to repair an axle. I'm glad to hear that I have a few choices. I thought that was a great idea Dave had for aligning the axle using the radius rods. Also, a great idea by Stan to use a compressed sleeve to line it up to weld. I was wondering if it is difficult to line up the axle if the tube is pressed in? Is it too tight to rotate? I'm leaning toward replacing the tube thinking it would be stronger than a weld. I don't have much tube left on my axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stuart Wheeler on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:00 pm:

Here is what I have to work with. I haven't opened it up yet, I'm hoping for the best. I'm not sure what the transmission is from, it's a Chevy though. My latest project


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:06 pm:

I used Stan's method to change my small drum Ruckstell to a large drum unit. I built a jig to line the ends up. Where I ran into trouble was the tubes were two different diameters. I used a piece of angle and shims to line them up. After welding the tube were was slightly bowed but a slight bump in a press brought it all back to right. If I do another one, I would make a tube stepped to fit the inside diameters closely and assist in getting the tubes parallel.

I did not have a metal chop saw, so I but a carborundum blade in my Sears miter saw and cut the tubes to match.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:09 pm:

With what Stuart has left, I think he needs to look into the re-rivet method, and put a whole new tube and backing plate in.

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 12:23 am:

Stuart Wheeler:

Its interesting that who ever made the tractor turned the Ruckstell upside down. I am not sure what advantage that would be. If all the gears and other parts are inside and in usable shape it looks like you have a good deal.

One other option you have is to buy a right side housing from Chaffin's, but that is expensive.

If you don't have a lot of equipment to do the work that we have suggested you might consider having Stan Howe do it for you. He is an expert at working on Ruckstells

One way to save some money is to make your own rod from the front shifter to the back shifter out of electrical conduit. I rivet a clevis on the ends. Sometime I install a nut so I can adjust the length of the rod by using a clevis with a threaded end.

By the way you have the good rear shifter much safer than the short rear shifter that can shift into neutral at any time and get you in an accident at an intersection or down a long steep hill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 01:16 am:

I would assume they mounted it upside down because they needed to reverse the direction of rotation of the drive axles. Unlike a standard axle the guts can not be reversed to change the rotation in a Ruckstell. I guess we would have to see the homemade machine to tell the whole story.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 01:29 am:

Dave, thanks for the plug but I am working on my last or close to last Ruckstell for customers. I have one new one to get finished and one to finish rebuilding and that will be it. Any I do from now on will be units that I own & refurbish and sell and when the last few parts I have on hand are used up I will no longer be doing that. The price of parts is high and supply intermittent and I have decided to concentrate on the carburetor business instead of doing any more Ruckstells. I will have done about 70 of them by the time I get these last two or three done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 11:01 am:

I think Herb is correct. It would be quite difficult to line the two tube sections up and get them welded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 07:50 pm:

Not sure how much of the original housing is there, but I think I would still take my chances on welding on a donor housing. Somehow I think there is a better chance of getting it straight and aligned properly than trying to stuff an entire housing/tube into the Ruckstell housing. With welding, you can monitor the alignment while welding....whereas, when you push the tube into the Ruckstell casting, that's it, unless it is a sloppy fit. Then what?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 07:57 pm:

You could run that Chebby trans in reverse and go forward in a very low gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 11:42 pm:

Stewart Wheeler:

I promised a picture of the collar I use remove the Ruckstell shafts from either the pumpkin or the backing plate.

The plate is 1 inch thick steel. The center hole is 2 &1/2 inches, just the right size to fit around the housing shaft

Collar 1

Collar 2

Collar Center


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 01:36 am:

Stuart,
I saved a Ruckstell that was cut down like yours. Using a 16" lath and 4 jaw chuck, I bored out the remains of the old tube. I then made a "Spud" to hold and center the outer end of the donor tube and backing plate using the lathe tail stock. I bolted on the other side housing and fabricated a simple jig to make sure the spring support and wish bone holes were in alignment before pressing. The original rivet holes in the Ruckstell housing were counter sunk (Weld Preped) for plug welding the housing to the donor tube after pressing. I also coated the tube end with Lock Tight before pressing.

Using a wire feed welder, I plug welded the housing to the tube assy. Each weld was cooled using compressed air before the next weld. Was able to form each weld to end up looking like a rivet head. It is easy making plug welds look like rivet heads using a wire welder.
After assembly and welding, I chucked the Ruckstell housing back in the lath using the 4 jaw chuck and tail stock. Using the lath and a dial indicator, I was very happy in how true the saved Ruckstell housing turned out.
Using Lock Tight and a press fit, welding may have not been necessary.....just added security.
I know the Lock Tight is destroyed in the weld zone....however, cooling each weld before proceeding will allow some Lock Tight to still survive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 01:17 am:

Stan, Where was your bearing sleeve suggestion when I was repairing my 1913 housing? That is a good one. Although it probably wouldn't have helped me a lot. The 1913 axle tube was different than the 1915 donor tube. I used angle iron and modern screw type hose clamps to hold it all together while I welded it. I had to shim the angle iron to line it up. A lot of careful measuring before and during welding with a little grinding and filling after welding and I have a nice housing. The donor '15 had an early, matching, backing plate.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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