Suggestions re: emissions & testing

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Suggestions re: emissions & testing
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 10:51 am:

Since I live inside the city limits of Memphis, where all vehicles are required to pass emissions tests in order to be licensed, I have encountered a problem:

It appears that the apparatus used to test emissions is some kind of plug that goes in the tailpipe. When they tried to test my T, the fellow reported that he couldn't perform the test because "there isn't a tailpipe."

The license bureau refuses to issue a license without a "pass" from the equipment.

Any suggestions?

And, if they should figure out a way to measure my emissions and find them to be over the acceptable limit, any suggestions about how to lower them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Pitts on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 10:59 am:

Hard to believe that a vehicle as old as a T is not exempt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:06 am:

I agree. It's hard to believe that antiques and horseless carriages aren't grandfathered in. I would research the law and find out what it really says. Sometimes the law that everybody "knows" doesn't really say what they think it does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:08 am:

Emissions testing in Tennessee only applies to vehicles manufactured for 1974 model year or later. Click here:
http://www.dmv.com/tn/tennessee/emissions-testing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:11 am:

The one's I've seen and used have an S shaped metal tube on them. The business end goes into the tail pipe any where from 6" to a foot and it hangs there. If that's what's being used the guy is right. Technically you don't have a tail pipe and he can't insert the probe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:12 am:

Peter

An antique car should be exempt, but some states are tough due to EPA laws.

Another T'er in NJ had this issue, they must have made an adaptor to mate to the tiny exhaust outlet of the Ford muffler, here is a scan of the test report I saved from that post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:12 am:

Memphis City requires a test on any year or weight of vehicle, It is the only city in the state that has a emissions test.It is right there on the posting by Royce.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:14 am:

Move somewhere else! Maybe you could rent a place outside the city and give that address, then move back in after it passes. Are there other Model T owners in Memphis? If you can find any, you might ask them how they get their cars licenced.

I hope this doesn't open a can of worms, but here in California, which has very strict laws, cars are only required to have the equipment which was required at the time they were built, except for some PCV device which recycles the crankcase blowby. Cars as old as a Model T are exempt from any tests.

A problem that I can see with requiring a Model T to pass an emissions test is the carburetor adjustment needle. It can be leaned or enriched by turning the valve. It could pass or not pass depending on how the needle is set, and a few minutes later it could be adjusted and not pass if it were to be re-tested.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:15 am:

Dan: I wonder if that guy volunteered to be tested. I live in N.J. and collectibles don't require an inspection. Emissions or otherwise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:16 am:

Even the commie ass kissing lewd leftist state of
Taxafornicatia doesn't require any type of smog check for a car built in 1975 or earlier. But it will come.
It will be interesting to see how this one turns out.
If they insist on a tailpipe check just run it with the spark lever a bit retarded and lean the mixture some. Make sure the engine is hot.
It is way past time that this country was taken over by Americans. But we all know it aint gonna happen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:17 am:

Here in Califunny vehicle registration is left to the state. To the best of my knowledge local government has no authority to impose requirements beyond those of the state. Emissions testing requirements are not applicable to vehicles over 25 years old. Therefore, our T's are exempt.

Having said that (which is of no help to you) I'm with the two Steves on this. I'd do a little research and see if the city fathers and mothers included an exemptions for antique vehicles.

A sincere Good Luck! Fighting city hall is never fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:20 am:

I don't think this will open a can of worms as this has been ongoing in Memphis for many years, we lived there from 71 through 73 and had to go every year.I would think there would be a way to get past it.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:23 am:

Peter
They are giving you the run around....! I lived in Georgetown which is a city in Hamilton Co. That neighbors the City of Chattanooga Tn. so, we all fell under the emissions act of our bordering big city Chattanooga , trust me your car is exempt sounds like you delt with an untrained person. Skip the emission part go to the title / tag office they should take care of you. Plus read Royce's post on the law.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard, San Buenaventura, Calif on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:27 am:

I don't want to get into the middle of this ridiculous discussion, but I would provide a simple solution: buy a round muffler with a tailpipe about the size of the one we have and bolt it on for emission testing only. Investment? Perhaps $75.00


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:40 am:

Buy a foot of tail pipe and clamp it on the muffler. Investment $5.00


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:56 am:

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. It has been an adventure..

I went first to the Inspection station. They couldn't test the emissions, and opined that an antique shouldn't require that anyway.

I then went to the License bureau. I got a nice fellow. I explained the situation, and asked him for advice. He advised me to find an address outside Memphis where I could title the vehicle. He said all it took was two pieces of US Mail that were delivered to that address with my name on them.

I got a friend to allow me to use his address, and got some other friends to send me mail there.

I went back.

This time I got a lady. She knew from the get-go what I was trying to do, and would have no part of it. She pulled out a printed slip with a list of "acceptable" US Mail - all official documents like utility bills, rental agreements, tax receipts, etc. and said she would not accept any less. I looked over at the fellow who had been so helpful, and he just shrugged.

I do have the name of the head man at the Inspection Dept. He's been hard to reach, but I hope I can shame him into issuing a waiver since they can't test my vehicle.

I still have a Louisiana Antique license on the car, which is a permanent license. If all else fails, I'll simply leave that license on the car.

What a shame that "un-intended consequences" follow almost every law that gets enacted!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:10 pm:

One last suggestion: If there is a Model T club, or any antique car club for that matter, in Memphis contact them and see what they have to say about this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:18 pm:

You know? It's great to save the Earth and all, but the fact of the matter is, if a T put out ten times (And it DON'T!) the recommended daily allowance of CO and hydrocarbons and whatever else they test for, it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans worth of difference to the Earth's ecology. There's not enough of them on the road and the ones that are don't get driven enough to even come close to impacting the environment. Even in Los Angeles! Much less Memphis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:40 pm:

In California we have a smog referee who is the "court of last resort". I would imagine buried in the Tennessee bureaucracy somewhere is the same function. This person looks at the law and the vehicle to determine if or how the law applies.

The problem, as I see it, is that no one has challenged such a foolish city regulation.

Unfortunately we old car folks have no lobby to defend our hobby from the fools on government. I would start looking for an attorney who owns an old car and see if he would challenge this regulation on a pro bono basis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:52 pm:

Peter,
It is probably a catch 22 deal. You could simply remove the muffler for the test but they would likely say that the original exhaust system can not be modified!!!

A agree, talk to the head man at the Inspection Dept., maybe there is someone with some common sense there.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 01:16 pm:

Look up Sema on the net here and see if there is any info there to help.I cant see a antique being expecting to pass a test that did not even exsist then.That would be the same for a 55 chevy or anything else.Any old car guys in that town should be able to tell ye what to do.
What a load of bunk to put ye thru.
And all this to save the earth? That dang volcano a few years ago farted out enough smoke and ash to erase any efforts we make as humans for the next 3000 years to clean up the air.I would like to the Algores of the earth all go sit on that hole in the mountain and just try to do thier part to stop it from it's distructive behavior.Maby the tree huggers could wrap themselves around the trees and save them from the molten lava.Jeez what a mess for ye.I hope you can get it fixed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Dan,

Gee, it wasn't me....lol

In order to get in the NJ inspection lane it would have required standard tags so that adds another monkey wrench to my thought.

I for the life of me cannot imagine a car going through the Cherry Hill station and me not knowing of it being around....see, Camden County NJ is mighty lean on T's to begin with, with about 85% of the T population owned by but 2 guys....lol.

Care to share by PM your source? Golly gee....just may be the makings of a new MTFCA chapter...lol...only need maybe one or two more. :-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 03:44 pm:

George

Can't recall , the pic of that test I downloaded from a forum post, I tried doing search but can't find any posts earlier than 2011 with 'test' or 'emission'.

The Emissions article in Vintage Ford Jan/Feb 2012 may be useful too, for those wanting to learn about reducing CO carbon, that NJ test shows that T ran 5.69 on a limit of 8.50. Leaning the NH carb as much as possible when doing an 'idle' testing of emissions for a Model T would make sense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 06:47 pm:

George - you know about the car - it is mine. I do have regular tags on my T and the inspection sticker is certainly a conversation piece.

Peter - to answer your question, here at the NJ inspection station the test tube is pretty narrow and they put it right in the muffler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:38 pm:

Oh...du'uh....well that answered that....I was not aware you ran standard plates! I had a brain f**t..saw 2 door...mentally associated Tudor...and that came as a surprise as I haven't seen one of those in like...ever!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 12:30 am:

Peter, I would try a few different things;

1) Contact your local city council member and ask for their guidance in getting your car licensed. Our council member has been known to come out to resident’s homes to discuss issues. You might be able to meet them at the test station and let them share your issue.

2) Contact your local newspaper and news teams. Often they will help.

3) Go to a different test station. I have heard of people getting a passing score and never being tested.

4) have a few official mailings forwarded to your friends address.

5) Last step, threaten the city with a discrimination lawsuit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 12:32 am:

One last thing, you could try the state’s Attorney General’s Office, and ask for their advice and to place an official complaint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 05:36 am:

If you register it as an antique, it should be exempt according to: http://www.memphistn.gov/pdf_forms/MVIB_InspectionOrdinanceWebVersion.pdf

"THE CITY OF MEMPHIS CODE OF ORDINANCES
CHAPTER 21:
(--)
Sec. 21-301 DEFINITIONS
(2) Antique motor vehicle is any motor vehicle over twenty-five years old which is owned solely as a collectors’ item and is used for participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades and similar uses, but in no event for general transportation.
(--)
Sec. 21-306 Exemptions from Motor Vehicle Emission Requirements
(1) The following classes of motor vehicles are exempt from the emission requirements established in Sections 21-304 and 21-305 of this Chapter:
(a) Antique motor vehicles with antique registration;"


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