1922 Touring car Firewall

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: 1922 Touring car Firewall
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 06:21 pm:

My 22 Touring car has a metal firewall, was that the norm? Im hoping nobody pieced one in.Or did they have metal firewalls on 23 cars and maybe it got one of those..Not sure what to think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 06:35 pm:

The early low radiator 23's had a metal firewall.
So, if yours is a late 22 it might be OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard M. Peterson on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 07:00 pm:

My 23 with an early Feb 23 motor number has a wood firewall


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 07:11 pm:

My 22 has a wood firewall casting date on motor is 2/22/22


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike bartlett Oviedo,Fl on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

I was of the opinion the wood f/walls stopped in April,1923. Yes? No?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:12 pm:

Whenever they made the low, metal firewall they made a lot of them. I have seen several of them a swap meets over the years. I thought they would be rare but apparently not so.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:50 pm:

My '23 with an Oct 22 motor date has wood. I thought the switch happen in February 23 (officially), but I suspect some assembly plants did not run out of wood firewalls until considerably later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 08:53 pm:

Joe,

Your profile shows this was your 5th posting. Welcome aboard! Strongly recommend you check out the locat Model T club nearest to you. And sometimes it may be in the state next to you rather than the state you are in.

I looked but I did not see a photo of your car on your profile. If you are an old head with Model Ts disregard the rest of this posting. But if you are new to Ts – recommend that you confirm the year of your car. The dates on titles are often wrong (some states didn’t title until later, some states used the date the car was sold as the date of the car (i.e. Dec 20 1920 was a 1920 and Jan 5, 1921 was a 1921 and they both would have been 1921 year model cars.) Engines were and still are often swapped out or blocks replaced due to damage etc. If you are not sure of the year of your car recommend you post a few photos and some information on why you believe it is a 1922 and not a 1923 which after Feb 1923 could have had a metal cowl. Just a suggestion if you are new to Ts.


Ref Bruce’s on-line encyclopedia at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/C-D.htm#dash
1923
Steel, used with low hood for short time beginning about February 1923. Both the wood and the steel were used concurrently for a time. On April 7, 1923, a factory letter said that all production was then with the steel firewall

See also: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc23.htm

FEB 15, 1923 Acc. 572, Box 21, Ford Archives
Assembly and changes letter to the branches states that T-8761B dash (firewall) has been changed from wood to steel. Both types will be coming through in production for about sixty days.

APR 7, 1923 Acc. 78, Box 47-49, Ford Archives
Letter indicates that the steel firewall was now standard. This was the "low" steel firewall.

And while we are at it if you are new to Ts be sure to check out the safety items listed at:

1. Forum 2010: Dangerous features of a Model T http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/154102.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 Model T Ford
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 100%
2. Forum 2010: Need Help in Kentucky. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/149345.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 Model T Ford
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
3. Forum 2012: HELP! http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/258265.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 cut
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
4. Forum 2010: NEW here and to owning a T http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/149452.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 Model T Ford
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
5. Forum 2010: Serious concerns after reading Bum Rear End http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/131656.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 Model T Ford
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
6. Forum 2012: KW Ignition key http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/283226.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 cut
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
7. Forum 2009: A few questions you can probably answer in your sleep! http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/116918.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... , Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford
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8. Forum 2010: Starting a 1922 T http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/144534.html
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Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
9. Forum 2010: First time driver question http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/125387.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 Model T Ford
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
10. Forum 2010: 16 louver hood? http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/157992.html
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11. Forum 2012: Time to De-Lurk, Say Thanks, and Ask A Question. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/270286.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 cut
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12. Forum 2010: 1915 Touring Restoration http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/128279.html
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13. Forum 2010: New here and a new T http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/132094.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 Model T Ford
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
14. Forum 2010: Finishing Touches Before Starting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/168655.html
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15. Forum 2010: New Member buys first T http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/167664.html
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Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%
16. Forum 2012: Help with Appraisal of Fathers 1924 Model T http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/277804.html
• /messages/50893/72116.html Use safety ... submitted, Hap l9l5 cut
Matching Posts: 1, Relative Score 99%


And your question about the inside of the top on another thread and the firewall etc. can often be answered by referring to Bruce’s on-line encyclopedia http://mtfca.com/encyclo/intro.htm or his CD (available from the vendors see: http://www.modeltford.com/item/MTE-CCD.aspx )

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Missett Wyoming, PA (NE) on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 09:25 pm:

My early 23 low radiator Fordor has a wood firewall


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 09:28 pm:

My T has the straight windshield and the two person top and side lamps. The motor is from a 24. I'm unable to find any body numbers because the paint is thick.. What other year indicators are there? Maybe its one in a million and worth a fortune.. ha!! I'll post a pic when I get to a real computer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 10:19 pm:

My Feb '23 touring car has a wood firewall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:06 am:

here's what I have


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Pacoima, CA on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:47 am:

I have an early 22 and it's got a wood firewall...I think the later 22's were metal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:03 am:

I have seen many many low steel firewalls on chassis setting out in the weather and only just a few with wood or the remains of wood. My theory is that a lot of steel firewalls replaced the wood ones as they deteriorated. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:19 am:

Bob,

Great looking touring car that should give you years of enjoyment. If you can trace back some of the history of the car from previous owners that would answer many of your questions. However, sometimes the previous owners are no longer available. In that case you can still review the different parts on the car and determine some likely scenarios of how the car came to have the parts that are on it now.

Is this your first Model T? If not approximately how long have you been involved with other Ts?

Clearly your car did not come from the factory with a 1924 engine and a 1915-1920ish body. One or the other or both have been changed out sometime in the past. And it could be a previous owner or restorer took the best parts from a couple or even several cars and put them together (I’ve done that in the distant past and on a low budget it isn’t a bad option to get one nice car).

Please post better photos or a description of the following areas. How wide are the arm rests? Is there a bolt head (often called a rivet) in front of the rear door in that circled area?

From a very quick review and without being able to see those areas clearly – I think you may have a 1915 – very early 1917 body on your car that has wooden seat frames and does not have the carriage bolt in front of the rear door. “IF” the car has the carriage bolt and it is just hidden in the shadow – then my next guess is a 1915-1920ish metal seat framed body. Also please take some photos of the door handles. And lift the floor mat and check the passenger right front floorboard support. There is a 50/50 chance you will find a body number there. See “Home for the Holidays” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html for additional details for what to look for there and the photo / information requested in the next paragraph.

Also please take the coil box lid off and take a photo of the dash and coil box. Also take one of the rear axle where the drive shaft goes into the rear axle – does it have a closed spool or open spool pinion bearing holder [are the bolts inside the casting or can you see the length of the bolts?].

Again, great looking car that will give you lots of fun and enjoyment. It could also be a 1920ish touring that had the engine swapped out or several other variations depending on what parts you document to be there.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:07 am:

One of the few true new-old-stock parts that I have is a low hood steel firewall. It doesn't look like it has ever had a bolt in it. I don't think I could ever bring myself to use it. Good used ones are too easy to get.
When I got into this hobby, about 45 years ago, it was believed that most Ts had steel firewalls before 1921. Many Ts probably had them changed for that reason.
Nice looking touring! Welcome to the affliction.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:13 am:

I meant to add, that I wouldn't worry about a steel firewall unless I was trying to turn it into a perfect "as the factory built it" car.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 01:33 pm:

Thanks for the helpful information.. according to the T encyclopedia.. my car shou not have gas lamps because I have electric starter. Or is shouldn't have an electric starter because I have gas lamps..who knows what's been done in the last 90 years to it but one thing is for certain and that is that it runs good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 04:06 pm:

I have a 22 Roadster with a low radiator and a steel firewall. This car was restored in the 60's and had the steel firewall since I bought it. I don't know the history of this car before it was restored, but it has had very low mileage since it was restored. The 40 year old tires were still on and had tread, but the sidewalls were cracked.

My suspicion is that Henry had cars assembled in many plants and they used up the parts on hand before changing to the new parts. So there are some differences from car to car.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 05:31 pm:

Joe,

Your cowl and tail lights burn kerosene, not to be confused with acetylene burning headlights. Unfortunately, kerosene smokes and blows out easily. I have found Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil to be a great substitute. It doesn't smoke near as bad. Smells great burning. And doesn't blow out nearly as easily while driving. I use mine frequently in early morning or overcast days, just to make people ask questions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:48 am:

Hal, I have a electric tail light is that correct? two gas lamps and the rear is electric. I would say my car is 60s restoration so I don't know the history behind it. I've wanted to run the gas lamps but haven't felt comfortable. I do have some battery operated lights that I put in there but forget to operate them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:29 am:

I'm basing it on your picture above from May 9 at 1:06 am. The headlights are electric. More about that later. The two lights on the cowl were originally oil burning. There would have been a burner with a wick that went down into the font at the bottom of the light which held several ounces of kerosene. Originally, if the car was not electric start, the tail light would have been very similar to those cowls lights, only it would have a red lens facing the rear and a clear lens facing the right toward the license plate. If is was originally not an electric start car, the headlights would have been powered off the magneto with both lights wired in series. If one burns out the other goes out. If it was electric start from the factory, I don't think it would have had cowl lights, and it would have had an electric tail light and headlights powered off the battery (Wired in parallel this time). After 90 some odd years, it's hard to say what has been done to these cars. I've seen the oil burning lights converted to electric. I've seen electric tail lights added. I've seen electric tail lights put on and oil tail light removed. I've seen cowl lights added to electric start cars because people like the looks of them. So it's kinda hard to say. However, it would be safe to say none of the lights on the car in your photo above burn gas. The non electric lights burn kerosene or lamp oil.


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