Right hand Cranking

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Right hand Cranking
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Brown on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:00 am:

What is wrong with it?
I am right handed and crank my T with my right hand and the left hand resting on the right fender. I also tuck my thumb under and have the spark retarded. Cranking with my left hand is very awkward for me. I know it is a big discussion point but I am sure I am not the only one who cranks this way. I could break my left wrist just as well as my right in a backfire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard, San Buenaventura, Calif on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:09 am:

True.
Luckily this way you will break your right one. Did you train writing with your left hand already?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:12 am:

Dennis...

Crank with your LEFT, thumb under and if you get a kick back you have a extremely strong chance it will knock your hand AWAY from the direction of kickback and yeah, it might sting as it hits the fender but it is out of the way when that 2nd spin happens.

Crank with the RIGHT, thumb under and if you get kick back, your hand is still in the center of the 'circle when it comes around the second spin and you have maybe a 1% chance of sting...the rest needs screws...

% are my opinion...:-):-)

Now, that said I AM a left handed person, yet I always crank my T's with my right, (and chastise my grown sons who do it right handed also). In my own case I simply taught myself 'no grip' until I visually look at the spark lever, no senior moments or distractions allowed and all of my cars, no matter what timer, are set so 'up' full is really 'up' full.

Get ready though...with this question the 'pinned hand righties' have a habit of posting their x-rays as answers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:41 am:

What's wrong with it is that the car is faster than you are. If the crank kicks back and is jerked out of your hand, your right is much more likely to be within the arc and get whacked than your left would be. The spinning crank hitting a hand is one of the two likely kinds of break.

The other kind is the arm (usually the wrist) being instantly compressed when the crank kicks back. I underlined that because you have no chance to react before it gets you. This can happen whether your thumb is tucked or not. The way to prevent it is to only PULL UP on the crank from about the 7 or 8 position and NEVER go over the top. It's the crank coming up that will get you in a kick-back. I know about this because I did it cranking a tractor. The pain was so excruciating that I passed out on the ground. I don't know how long I was unconscious before I came to and drove to the hospital.

Being right handed or left handed is irrelevant. This is not a fine motor skill like writing or drawing. If you can pick up a brick off the ground with your left hand, you can pull up a crank with your left hand.

Here's cranking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCWnmPrxKo0.

And here's how fast that kickback can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_lkFGQToIw.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:01 am:

Just one picture and a link to a previous discussion.



http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/197162.html

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:26 am:

Dennis,

Here's what's wrong with it:

So far, nobody on this forum has or knows of anybody who has broken a wrist while cranking a Model T left-handed. Conversely; according to what has been said on this forum, anybody who HAS broken a wrist while cranking a Model T was cranking right-handed.

So, what's the point of tucking your thumb? Well, if you crank right-handed with your thumb tucked underneath, then, if the engine kicks back and fractures your wrist, it will do so without dislocating your thumb. I'm of the opinion that if you're cranking left-handed, it doesn't matter what you do with your thumb, but I tuck it underneath just for the sake of tradition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:01 am:

Retard the spark, grab the handle with either hand, and pull the handle and the engine will start.


If you don't know how to retard the spark, then by all means pull the handle with your left hand so it will not break your wrist when it fires backward and flies out of your grasp because you don't know what you are doing.

Our two cylinder moline has 100 cubic inches in each cylinder and requires both hands to crank it. I always retard the spark and have never broken any bones because it never fires backwards.

It's that simple.


There used to be an old song named "Don't go in the lion cage tonight father, for they are hungry and have not been feed". Know what you are doing before you do it and know how to do it and do it correctly. It's that simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 04:39 am:

Frank,

I use to have an old hand crank start big generator I lugged around construction sites, some ancient Onan at that. The crank was not spring mounted, and a long throw at that so it was grasp by BOTH hands and needed to be spun.

Forget any kickback...even in the right direction it was when to decide to let go of the boomerang 'effect' that made it interesting...haha. Sometimes you felt like a discus thrower and had to go fetch it later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:14 am:

I have never understood the problem with right hand cranking until Steve mentioned pushing down on the crank handle. I can see this would be a problem, one easily circumvented by pulling up on the handle.

The handle on my cars engages at about 8.30 to 9 o'clock. With my right hand pulling up, I crank it over one compression only. My hand is above the arc of the handle before it has a chance to backfire. I did forget to retard the spark on a recent tour, being distracted by an audience. It backfired and the handle was torn from my hand with no damage. I do keep my thumb on the same side as my fingers. This is the way I have done it for 50 years. I guess that makes me closer to a broken arm/wrist.

I'd better be careful!

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:36 am:

I've been cranking my T's for nearly 50 years - Right Handed.

Thumb on the same side, engage the crank in the 6 - 7 o'clock position pull the lever up to the top. The Town Car some times runs backwards when cranked first up when cold but but I never am at risk of getting broken bones.

If the engine ever kicks back it pulls the handle out of your fingers, as you are pulling up your arm is always away from the crank when it travels around the clock and gets back to where it left you fingers. Never push down on the crank to start,

Any broken arms/wrists I have ever seen were because the thumb was on the wrong side.

I once saw a well known Model T guy cranking Right handed who pulled up the handle for an elderly driver who had the timing set too far advanced. The motor kicked back but being so big and strong he held onto the crank handle and the front wheels lifted off the ground.

I'm sure that a lot of owners who are reasonably new to cranking, any car takes a while to get to know the settings or remember to get it firing up easily when cranked. When I am going to turn off the engine I automatically retard the spark and close the throttle before I turn off the switch. When I next crank the car the switch is turned on by anyone - wife, passenger or myself and I then engage the crank. It does what it is supposed to.

If your engine is in good condition you can feel the compression as you pull the crank up. If you engage the crank at 6 O'clock it will fire when the handle s near the top of the pull, no way will you break anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:51 am:

It matters not at all which hand you use. Pull up in quater pulls. Never spin the crank or push down on the crank.

You can't use the choke and crank with your left hand anyways.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:52 am:

I'll bet if the truth be known probably 90% or better of the right handed people that hand crank, hand crank with their right hand. And probably 90% of them are embarrassed to admit it for fear of being labeled as ignorant by the few holier than thou safety nuts that "yeah, but what if" themselves and others through life. No doubt left handed is safer in the case of a kick back. I just prefer to make sure I'm not going to get a kick back. I've seen videos of guys trying to show the "proper" way to crank, and some were downright comical. Pulling with the left hand and practically running away from the car every time they let go of the handle. Animated and comical I tell you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:04 am:

Oh you haven't heard, Royce? The proper way is when you feel you need additional choking, you must go around and turn the switch off, then go back up front and pull the crank right handed while choking, then go back around and turn the switch back on.:-) No kidding. Saw that right here.

For those of you that like to say "yeah, but what if the timer rod is not adjusted right" or "yeah, but my uncle's neighbor had a short in his timer and.......", maybe you guys should disconnect the battery while choking. You never know when you might get a short in the switch and you just think it's off.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 08:02 am:

I crank with my right hand, a 1/4 pull straight up is all it ever takes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 08:07 am:

Royce took the words out of my mouth.....
I'm right handed, I leave my switch off, choke with my left hand while pulling 1/4 turn with my right until I've turned the engine one complete turn.
I then set my spark lever turn my switch on, and pull 1/4 turn with my right hand until the car starts usually only 1-2 pulls and she's running.....
Been doing this sense I was 16 years old I'm 47 now so I'm either very lucky or I'm doing something right...?
I'm not telling anyone this is the right way or the wrong way, but I know I can't reach my choke wire if I was turning the engine with my left hand....
Remember a starter is very nice and takes all the risk factor out, I've never heard of anyone getting kicked back on while sitting in the car. So my vote is an electric starter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:00 am:

Dennis

Here's an alternative for us right handers that have trouble adapting to left hand cranking.

Approach the crank from the front, make a quarter turn to the left, grab crank with right hand so that your knuckles are on the OUTSIDE of the crank circle. (At this point you can turn somewhat to the right as is comfortable, I usually rest my left hand on the right fender or use it to grab the choke pull wire). Give it a quarter turn pull being sure to release at the top and continue moving your hand upwards after release.

This effectively keeps your wrist out of the crank circle (the same as when cranking left handed).

Miz Liz has never kicked back at me but you take precautions according to the severity of the consequences and a broken wrist sounds painful.

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:11 am:

That sounds like a good way, Schuh :-)
The main problem with left hand cranking in my view would be remembering not to put the right hand on the hot radiator for support when starting a hot engine.. ouch!
cranking


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:53 am:

Has anyone considered that what Ford was trying to illustrate was the pulling from 8-12 on the crank and not what hand to use? I'm thinking if they really wanted to stress left handed operation the caption could just have easily read, "Illustrating left handed grasping of starting crank to avoid injury due to back kick".

Just saying....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:53 am:

I hear a lot of arguments from "right-handers" about how it's perfectly safe to crank right-handed if you know what you're doing and if you do it right and if the spark is properly retarded and if the engine is set up correctly and if you've been doing it a long time and it has never happened to you. The argument seems to be that you'll never make a mistake and you'll never forget to retard the spark and your engine's condition and adjustment is foolproof and you've been lucky for a very long time.

The "do it right and you won't get hurt" argument presupposes that you're so sharp, you'll never, ever become distracted or forgetful; that you'll never make a mistake—and it also supposes that cranking right-handed is so incredibly blankety-blank important that rejecting a method which starts the car just as well and has PROVEN* to be 100% safe is justified.

When it comes to this issue, I work within two limitations:
1.) I'm not perfect. There have been times in my life when I've actually forgotten something.
2.) My Model T—bless it's stalwart little, cast-iron heart—is dumb as whale poop and can't tell whether I'm cranking right or left-handed, so it'll start just as well either way.

*Name one person on this forum who has broken a LEFT wrist or knows of someone who did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:12 am:

I've been cranking my Model T right handed for 42 years, because that was the way I was shown by original Model T owners that were still living and gave me help in restoring my T in the late 70's, namely my Grandpa (1896-1973), and all his old cronies (one of who reminisced about chasing Pancho Villa across Mexico with Black Jack Pershing, behind the wheel of a Model T in 1916) and an old neighbor gentleman named Mr. Moore (75 in 1970), who worked for Ford in the 1920's and was an immense help to me as a 16 year old newbie.

Honestly, until I came on this Forum, I had never heard of such a thing as a mandatory rule for cranking a Model T left handed. If I had tried to tell Grandpa, or his old buddies, or Mr. Moore that they had been doing it wrong all these years, they would have laughed me out of the room. Seems like if Ford had intended for it to be cranked left handed, they would have designed the choke ring to be on the right side, but I truly don't think they gave it any thought and assumed that it the owner was left handed, and felt more comfortable starting left handed, he would use his left hand.

As for me, I am right handed and find it much easier to start my car using my right. However, out of respect for those who recommend using the left, I have tried using my left hand, but have found it to be more unsafe for me to do this, as I am uncoordinated using my left and my left is much weaker than my right. Also, there is the issue of trying to prime the carb by pulling on the choke ring with my right hand while trying to pull the crank with my left. I am not a contortionist, so it does not work for me.

There is a safe way of starting it right handed, by positioning the crank at 7:00 to 9:00, wrapping just the 4 fingers around the crank with the thumb out of the way, then pulling up hard and fast and letting go of the crank at 12:00 and continuing the upward movement of the hand out of the way of the crank, then doing it again (and again) until the car starts.

I have had many backfires when cranking from the front, but my right hand has always been long out of the way, thanks to this technique.

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:12 am:

If b~~~~~~t ruled the world I'd be king.

IF is the biggest little word in English.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:16 am:

Oops. I said late 70's. Should be early 70's. I restored my Model T in 1970-72. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:36 am:

I might add that I always crank my 42 GPW with my right hand, in thousands of starts, I have only had a couple of kick backs with little pain, but with only a few hundred starts on a T, I have had many kickbacks. Perhaps I have some carbon in my timer, but sometimes with the spark completely retarded, it will still fire before top dead center. Thanks to the advice from this forum, I have always started my T with my left hand, and a kick back is no big deal, I would hate to have a right handed kick back. That being said, I still start my GPWs with my right hand.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:42 am:

I forgot to mention, I was taught how to start a T correctly with the right hand, but I found it to be uncomfortable. The hand should be placed on the crank so that the thumb is pointed forward, and the palm facing in the direction of the rotation of the crank at the top of the pull, the crank will then throw the hand out of the way the same way it will for the left hand. To get a full ½ turn with the crank, it is a simple matter of setting it up during the priming turns.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:44 am:

Bob, some of us fly airplanes and he MUST do it right every time. When the battery is low we must hand crank them too. We pull down on the left side of the prop because the engines are put in backwards and so run counterclockwise. We use a wiping motion towards the tip as we pull down. One time one of my fellow flyers was propping the plane and a big German Shepard came over to play and she didn't see the dog while propping the engine. The dog was short enough that the prop did'nt cut meat, just fur. Needless to say there was a lot of stitching done at the vet's.

There are things like remembering to use flaps, lower the wheels, change tanks and other stuff that is rather complicated without a check off list and instruments. If you have a carburetor, you must use carb heat as we do on our Model T's to avoid icing on decent or low power and lean for power while cruising just like in a Model T.

It's really not difficult to only have to remember to have the brake set and to remember to retard the spark on your Model T . . . use a check list chart if you are forgetful.


When you get distracted or forgetful in an airplane you change the color of the seats and scare the hell out of the passengers. In a Model T you simply break your wrist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:51 am:

Seems the following topics get everyone in an up roar!

(1) Which hand to use starting your T.
(2) What transmission bands are best or worst.
(3) How to mount tires.
(4) Should you use tire flaps.
(5) Paint or leave it in a nice rusty tone.

That's just the first five I could think of in 5 sec. Pretty funny always a good read on here, that's why I like it.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:58 am:

Steve you forgot the one that creates the most disagreements.

(6) Whether or not to use a water pump.

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:37 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M Philpott on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 12:15 pm:

Doesn't the clubs learning video show using the right hand?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

I will say that if I had a kickback while cranking a T and the lever was all the way up, my first order of business would be to adjust the linkage, not just crank left handed. I guess while some are cavalier about how they crank, others are cavalier about how they adjust their timing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 12:50 pm:

I always cranked right handed until I saw the picture by Jim Thode. That gave him an extra "elbow". This is the way I do it now. I leave the key off, pull out the choke wire with the left hand, and pull up once. Then I let go of the choke wire and go around once with my right hand. Next I turn the key to Batt. Sometimes I get a "free start". If not, then I go back front and pull up with my LEFT hand with the thumb tucked under. One thing to watch for is sometimes the "free start" might be delayed, and when you go to crank it, it will suddenly start, as you are pushing in the crank, so be careful.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:03 pm:

The Ford instruction book shows cranking with the right hand too. Honestly you are not going to be hurt any less if you have a kickback cranking with the left hand.

If you hand crank on "MAG" it is dang near impossible to get a kick back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:08 pm:

Frank,

I too am a pilot and I've flown complex, high-performance airplanes for decades. But as imperfect and human as I am on the ground, so have I been in the air and on one occasion it was fortuitous that the landing gear horn sounded before I put the airplane on the runway with the wheels neatly tucked in the wells. Flying is an activity fraught with peril—and don't tell me it isn't, because I've lost several flying buddies to fatal airplane accidents—three of whom were well seasoned instructors. Pilots talk about managing risk because we know there's no way to eliminate risk.

To a lesser degree, antique car owners deal with risks whenever they operate their 100-year-old automobiles in a modern environment. We know our brakes are somewhere on the plus side of worthless, so we drive accordingly. We annoy other drivers because we actually slow down for green traffic lights until we get to the point of commitment where we know we couldn't stop the car before the intersection, so we then open the throttle and charge through. We know that if we get into a collision while driving a Model T, we're likely to suffer far worse injuries than we would in a modern, airbag-equipped car with seat belts and crumple-zones. That's the way it is; just part and parcel of the everyday operation of antique cars. We accept the hazards and engage in what pilots refer to as "risk management."

But there is one risk that need not be managed at all because it can be effectively eliminated—and no good pilot ever "manages" a risk when he can instead eliminate it completely (and still go flying).

Now, I'm not looking for anybody to play sad violins for me, but I'm crippled. I've had two spinal fusions, my left leg is half paralyzed and I've got enough metal joints in my body to provoke a body search every time I step through a metal detector. So, if I can hand-crank a Model T with my non-dominant hand, you can too. It doesn't take an eye-surgeon's touch or a pair of tweezers to flip the crank. You're not building a watch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:19 pm:

Some of us just don't want to. It's not comfortable. I have no desire to practice until it is. Hard headed? Yeah maybe. Tired of being told I'm wrong? Most definitely. Does it make me (us) any less intelligent? Yeah, in some people's eyes, but I would beg to differ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele Rusty, Montana on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:42 pm:

Gustaf, I think you have something adjust wrong if your getting that many quick backs. When your spark lever is retarded are you sure your timer is moving back as far as it should?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele Rusty, Montana on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 03:43 pm:

I hope Frank isn't ready my last post!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 04:27 pm:

Yeh, you remember to do everything right - without a checklist - until that cleavaged gorgeous young thing takes a look at you and your crank...



Can happen at any time, and it does.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:42 pm:

It always seems that there are famous last words such as: I have owned my 1910 since 1946 and always crank with my right hand. Yes, I have been hit a few times by the crank handle coming around when it kits back. Sore a few time, but no broken bones. I will be 80 next month, so perhaps I should try to be a lefty (which I am naturally - I was switched to right as a young child. I can write with either hand. ) I still like to crank with the right hand and pull the choke out with the left.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By SSGrant on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:12 pm:

Well I am a member of the Model T broken arm club. Back in 1994 I cranked my 1915 Fire Engine with my right hand as I have done many times. Come to find out the accessory distributor was broken internally leaving the distributor in a advance state although the spark was fully retarded resulting with a broken wrist(ouch!). Now when I crank the T it is done by using my right foot pushing down on the crank handle, so far no hits from kick backs. Does anyone else use this method?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:27 pm:

On my Harley. I do that with the right leg, too.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

Have a Happy 80th Birthday Darel. I hope you have many more years of enjoyment with your T. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 09:56 pm:

Real Harley riders straddle the bike and kick holding the bike up and OFF the kick stand... yeah right... How many DWEEBS here forget to hold the pedal down half way before putting the lever forward? Theres guys that swear you shift without reducing the throttle... The 26 coupe I sold my pal (coils and timer) loved to be spun 360 X 2 with the crank. His 14 year old kid does it too. If you cant retard the spark or figure out how the things gonna start, get a VOLT... "ON-OFF". Maybe these guys need a sticker on the dash AND radiator top that reads "WARNING! Intentional mis use of the starting apparatus may result in injury and death". I wonder why Ford didnt put the crank on a back wheel so you dont get run over if the ratchet pops off the brake. GOOD GAWD !!! Dang... I shoulda been using the right hand on the key... ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHqB628kD28


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:06 pm:

From ehow- Chauffeur's Fracture, also known as a Hutchinson fracture is an isolated fracture of the radial styloid. Also referred to as "chauffeur's fracture" or "backfire fracture," this injury originally described individuals struck by the hand crank on early automobiles when the engine suddenly backfired during starting.

{


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

Let me see now. We can learn how to operate the cab controls consisting of a long lever on the floor that has 3 significant positions, 3 foot pedals (one of which has three significant positions) 2 steering column levers, an ignition switch with 2 "on" positions, a knob to pull only if the weather and the engine are cold, but we can't learn how to pull a crank handle with the left arm?
I have hand cranked many different vehicles over many years, always with my right hand. Luckily no broken arm. I learned about the danger of this practice when I got my T and joined this forum. Guess how many times I had to practice using my left hand until I had it mastered. I'll give you a clue, it was less than two:-)
My Mom would be so proud!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 08:02 am:

Like I said above, some of us just don't want to. And it gets pretty annoying with the chosen, I mean, self appointed few constantly telling us we are doing it wrong. Must be payback for trying to convince people to leave their ignition systems the way Henry made them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 08:36 am:

I agree Hal. This old dog tried the new trick but, like all the old timers that taught me, I didn't like it and choose to continue doing it they way they did it back in the day. I'd like to think I'm carryin' on a tradition. I appreciate all the concern, I do, but stop preachin' already and deal with it. You're like the self-righteous non-smoker telling the smoker he oughtta quit. He knows he oughtta quit, but he likes smoking and is going to have to WANT to quit before he does it, just like I'm going to have to WANT to crank my car left handed before switching, but I don't see that happening, no matter how much you all preach. Some of us are going to continue doing it the way we always have no matter how much you preach, but if you see me out cranking my Model T right handed, don't come up to me and tell me I'm doing it wrong, or you might get an earful back. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:14 pm:

This is kind of like getting someone to eat Broccoli if they don't want to, isn't it!
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:30 pm:

I was surprised to learn that many brass era cars have no spark adjustment. These include Hupmobile, Metz and others. Do owners of these cars suffer more fractures?


Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:48 pm:

Now that we have this all settled, what kind of oil is best to lubricate the water pump in a doctor's coupe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Dexter, MN on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 01:07 pm:

Norman, I would rather crank with my foot than eat broccoli.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:06 pm:

I eat broccoli and I think you should too, even if you don't like it, because it is good for you. You should keep eating it until you learn to like it because it is what is best for you. You won't have to eat it long before you will learn to like it. Wish I had a photo to post of the digestive track of someone who refused to eat broccoli. It is not a pretty sight. Refusing to eat broccoli will result in major health issues for you one day. It is not a matter of if, but when. Yes, there are people that have lived 90 years and have not eaten broccoli, but they are the exception, not the rule. Just because you have lived 90 years without eating broccoli doesn't mean you couldn't have a major health issue tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:24 pm:

Hey P. Jamisen,
Most of the older vehicles with out manual spark advance, have impulse magnetos, These are a more advanced design that automatically retard the spark at very low RPMs (less than an idle) This allows the safe starting with either hand and very little danger of discomfort. The spark advance is then controlled with a centrifugal advance. The Ford ignition system is more complex, less reliable and bulkier but did not require patent royalties.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:25 pm:

Touche'


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:39 pm:

I'm still calling BS on the photo as being the authority on correct. I submit the guy they got to pose for the picture may have been left handed and the only point they are really trying to illustrate is "pull up-open handed". Unless you have text explaining the left hand should be used for the same BS reasons many of you have posted then you are merely guessing and then basing your guess off of a photo of a man who probably died 60-70 years ago who may well have told you he was left handed or the photographer asked him to stand that way to get a better view of the crank.

What about the british engines that spin the opposite direction? Would you lefties be wrong then?

Pull up when possible, open handed and don't read too much into the picture!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:03 pm:

There would be zero difference regardless of the hand being used. Another old wives tale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:47 pm:

Agreed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 04:24 pm:

Hi Mr. Bryngelson. The Metz and Hupmobile (and,I guess, others) use the Bosch DU4 Model 2 magneto. I don't believe this has any spark advance... or am I wrong??


Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 04:37 pm:

Jim,

Glad you liked it.:-) Norman planted the seed. I just had to take it and run.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 05:15 pm:

I have this little button on the floorboard that I push with my heel and my wrist stays put.... maybe I should use my left foot?????

Steve and Jim, It kinda reminds me of tomato tomaato/potato Patato....

:-)

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 05:55 pm:

Hey Phil,
To be honest, I do not know, but most farm tractors from the time used the impulse magnetos, these are the same as used on aircraft. Vehicles with distributors centrifugal advance. My 1942 Ford GPWs have this, and I have found that if I time them to spec, they can be painful to start by hand.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 06:30 pm:

Hal Davis,

Sorry if you got the impression I was preaching at you (or anybody else, for that matter). My comment wasn't intended to annoy you, but to answer Dennis Brown's direct question. He did ask what's wrong with right-handed cranking—and then, of course, the discussion arose. So, you and I are still good pals, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 06:53 pm:

Hi Bob. As one of the other righties, you and I remain absolutely the best of pals. That's the great thing about this Forum. After the dust settles we all remain friends.

Whenever a sensitive question such as this arises where there are always differences of opinions, we all feel we are answering the question from our personal experiences. Regarding this question, it just happens that the lefties feel there is a lot wrong with right hand cranking and the righties feel there is nothing wrong with it and just like any question where there are several ways of looking at it, we give the questioner all sides and arguments and he takes the information, digests it all and arrives at his own answer based upon all the information. That is all we can do. We make our case and he decides what is right for him. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 07:54 pm:

Actually Bob, I had not paid nearly as much attention to WHO said what, as I had to WHAT was said, so I had to go back and find what post you were referring to. No, I'm not upset with you or anyone else.

However, I do think the broccoli analogy is spot on.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 09:42 pm:

I always retard the spark, step on the starter button and go! No broken wrist yet. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 10:39 pm:

What actually amazes me about this is everybody wants to set their base timing as close to TDC as possible for that last little bit of timing and then worries about which hand to crank with. At 15 degrees ATDC it is not going to kick back. If you perform the necessary maintenance and keep it adjusted as you should, it shouldn't matter which hand you use. Just my .02. Now we return you to the regular programming.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 11:45 pm:

^ That.

I've had quite a few tractors over the years, most of them hand start.
I never had one kick back on me because I KNEW where the timing was at before I even tried starting them.
Left handed cranking is just bass ackwards.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 02:39 am:

15 degrees ATDC is only on magneto. If you start it on battery power it will hopefully be closer to TDC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 05:32 am:

I love broccoli!

Don't ask me how to crank. I do it all wrong, and have for more than 40 years. Right hand, wrap thumb, pull way over the top. I even begin spinning from the top. Had many backfires over the years. Always got my hand out of the way in time.
I do sometimes recommend cranking left handed to newcomers.

Phil J,
The use of "no spark adjustment magnetos" such as some of the early Bosch DU4s is not quite as bad as you may fear. The magnetos "usually" do not produce enough spark until you pull hard and fast enough to pull it through. At least that is how my T with the Bosch magneto was. It did have spark advance and retard, which helped to have better timing when running as best running is somewhat before top dead center. Be very careful setting up your timing. You want it to fire on top dead center, not any after, nor nary a hair before.
My pile of Metz remains includes a steering column which has two control levers on it. One is throttle? If not spark timing, what is the other?
I enjoy following some of your progress.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 06:20 am:

Actually, the 15 deg ATDC is on battery. That same setting on mag is WAY ATDC. So ATDC that it won't start. That is why you have to advance it a few notches to start on mag. Sorry I don't remember the exact number of degrees, but the article that Ron wrote and references frequently has all the details.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 06:32 am:

That's right Kep, I forgot about that. It was late


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 07:22 am:

Regarding magnetos and retarding the spark on cars other than the Model T: A friend of mine owns a very rare (seven worldwide) S.C.A.R. Touring, sort of like this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/SCAR_1908_vvr.JPG

As originally manufactured, there was no provision for manipulating the timing of the spark and so, it was retarded all the time, which caused a problem with overheating.


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