Technical question about Model T speed

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Technical question about Model T speed
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 01:55 pm:

I read where a highly modified Model T Ford engine turned a 16 second e.t. in a timed drag race but they didn't post the speed as they were simply bracket racing antique cars with times and not speeds.

Does anyone know how to do the math to obtain a close approximation for the actual speed the car would have been going ? I believe that it would be in the mid 80 mile an hour range but would like the formula or the answer.


Yes I know that the car could have gone faster for part of the run and then slowed and there are a lot of variables, all I want is a simple answer as if the car was constantly accelerating and the driver was doing his best to drive correctly, thanks, Fast Frank

No my little #22 was not that fast car, I came in second out of two so I didn't lose :~)


drag


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Dexter, MN on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:09 pm:

Using a common conversion formula, a 16.0 converts to a ballpark figure of 84.56, and 16.9 converts to 80.06

http://www.hotrodpitstop.com/tool.php#2

You can play with weights and horsepower in some of the calculators to get a rough estimate of what it takes to run that speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:09 pm:

You are going to need to know a bit more information.
See below for more information.

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Distance-Velocity-and-Acceleration.topicA rticleId-39909,articleId-39902.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:23 pm:

John, I fully understand that but all I have is the time at 16 seconds flat. I think I will use the 80 mile an hour estimate, Thanks Frank


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 02:39 pm:

Wow Frank thats fast! and inspirational. Can you tell us more. Who built it and whats it running for engine? P.S I have always liked that 22 car of yours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 04:15 pm:

Cool! so 65 HP in a 800 LB speedster can theoretically do 101 MPH and 13.36 seconds


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 05:46 pm:

I think these numbers are not correct. I used to race 1/4 when younger. I had an 850 Lb Glass buggy last and I had around 70 Hp and would never get into 16s with it so 65 in an 800 speedster at 101 and 13s don't work for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:35 pm:

Frank; It depends upon the length of the course.
F A S T uses 528' or 0.1 mile. Some of the older times were set on a standing mile.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:47 pm:

Frank,

You can solve it with what you have, takes a differential equation series and been a l-o-n-g while for me to anything in diff and calculus. I did a quick one with constant acceleration and a really gross delta t on a scratch pad and got 82.5 MPH.

Wouldn't take it to the bank yet...lol... but if someone else doesn't come up with a plug-n-play answer from somewhere, I'll set up a diff-e-q series longhand and run it when I get the chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 06:54 pm:

I remember an old hot rod magazine test where they took the body off of a VW bug and the weight dropped to around 900 lbs. It outran the new vette at the time in a 1/4 mile drag. Don't know what the horsepower was but I thought they were both stock engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 07:18 pm:

Doug, they must have done something like a cage to bring up the weight to 900 . A complete pan and trans can be lifted by two guys. An engine can also be lifted with ease by two guys.

Maybe it was also an 1/8th mile because a bug tops out pretty slow. I have built a 1915 motor and was planning on turbo with low boost around 6-7 lbs. but that would have killed me with such a lite car so I never put it in. They did so on PINKS and put it in a sedan and hit the wall at the big end. Same parts I used and same boost I planned on.

Also had a guy here at work that used to race bug dragsters in the 60s. He used to put the car ontop of his VW van to transport it. He had a few records and was well known on the west coast. He said 2 guys could lift that car with the engine in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 08:11 pm:

Doug, I worked for Ray Jay turbochargers and we turbonormalized about 500 kits and did installations and got FAA STC's for 40 different private models of airplanes by not increasing horsepower but actually producing sea level horsepower all the way up there. In 1965 we took a Cessna 210 to 42,000 feet.

Anyway, we turbocharged a Beetle and put a Harley Davidson side draft carburetor on it and turned up quite a storm. We put stainless steel valves in it and although I don't remember the speed it would not beat a Corvette but it was full bodied. WE also did a pinto and it could beat the V8 Mustangs of the time, not the Shelby's but the street models were a pinch.

I also did work for the Berry Mini-T corp who took bodies off of V W's and turned them into a cute roadster that was part M G T D in the front and a T Bucket in the rear.


We didn't turbocharge them But they were light and at about 60 horsepower when turbocharged to 20 p.s.i. and 600 pounds it could have really got it on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Partington on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:38 am:

G'Day Frank,
My number 22 Australia's oldest racing car the Wikner Ford Special built in Sydney in 1922. I have owned since 1958 and have raced all over Australia in historic events. I have been timed at 96 mph on a long downhill straight at Eastern Creek raceway Sydney. Wikner Ford Special


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 06:39 am:

Frank & Doug...Great looking cars!

(Frank...Second place is the first looser)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Henderson on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 06:56 am:

Dennis, in my opinion Frank took second place. Great job Frank for your second place finish!

Happy motoring, Warren

PS: I think I might have a wind resistance problem with my 1917 Canopy Express

On race day and the rain helps keep the tires cool

Deliveryrace day and the rain helped keep the tires cool


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 09:13 am:

Frank

Here is the fastest T ever in australia? 75HP Twin Superchargers later in life , here are the results with twin Superchargers 07-Feb 1936:



Note 17 9/10 sec quarter mile , very quick pre 1960-70 technology


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

Doug,

I remember you came to the "Lobethal Grand Carnival" with that car... it's beautiful. Is my memory correct in saying that it was once fitted with an early overland front axle? I'm sure I saw you at a national rally once..?

Cheers

Anthony

Apparently we made 62mph;) 1915


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Partington on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 07:04 pm:

Anthony,
It has a Mercury dropped axle with T stub axles that Wikners imported along with the RAJO head and the centre lock wheels and the radius rods each sides are standard T squeezed together. I remember you and your car at Lobethal. My car is on you tube at that event sight and sound


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 12:07 am:

Thanks Doug,

I'm sure I have seen someone with an overland front end in a red T speedster with a cord bound steering wheel! I actually found another front axle assembly after that though I have yet to bring it home.

What does your car weigh just out of interest?

Cheers

Anthony


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J Berch on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 12:24 am:

Doug Partington and Anthony Bennett, I don't want to hijack this thread but I would really appreciate if you would start a new thread with a photo spread of your beautiful speedsters. I have been involved with this forum for several years and I have never seen these beautiful automobiles.

Thanks, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 12:35 am:

Thanks Doug,

I'm sure I have seen someone with an overland front end in a red T speedster with a cord bound steering wheel! I actually found another front axle assembly after that though I have yet to bring it home.

What does your car weigh just out of interest?

Cheers

Anthony


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