Six cylinder Model T

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Six cylinder Model T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Holger T. Berthelsen on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:14 am:

I found this photo of me taken in 1956 at Lake Merritt in Oakland CA.I don't know where that car is now.Six cylinder Model T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 07:53 am:

Well, tell us about it, please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 08:12 am:

I have seen two of these engines.

One was in a museum in Boothbay Harbor Maine about 25 years ago. No one there knows where it went. The head on that one looked like an original head had been cut in two and a section added in the middle.

There was one in a Missouri Museum of speed a few years ago.

This one was on the Forum two years ago and has a different style head, along with a distributor or magneto.

Engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 08:54 am:

This could be the one from the article in the 1955+ editions of Model T Times. Don't have a copy at present. Thanks for the photo

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 09:05 am:

found the article


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 10:00 am:

"Cut the crankshaft into 5 pieces"?
I'd sure like to take a look at that crankshaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

Hall-Scott made two in Berkeley. I think the project was dropped around the time the model A came out.
There was a picture of one in a car on this site about 10 years ago.
Since Lake Merritt is about 5 miles from the Hall Scott factory where they made Ruckstells, truck engines and airplane engines and other things the one in the first picture may just be a Hall Scott.
Since it appeared to need a radiator at that time and the engine was not "original" it could very well have been scrapped..
I work on old cars in Oakland on all sides of Lake Merritt but have never heard talk about any 6 cylinder model T engines but I will start asking around.
One of our local T club members is a nephew of either Hall or Scott, he may know something since he worked there during his high school and college days.
I have a feeling the purists have let all information get forgotten.
If I ever find it.....naa, I doubt it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:33 pm:

The story about the Maine 6 Cylinder engine at that time I saw it was that Edsel had six of them cast, as an experiment. Henry Ford found all but one of them and had them destroyed. Edsel had hidden that one in Maine and Henry could not find it, so it survived. The rumor was that Henry had said that, "a car needed six cylinders like a cow needed six tits." I have not seen his statement in print anyplace else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 01:14 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/127821.html?1267509740


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:12 pm:

Where's a V8 cow, Jim?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:26 pm:

The second picture of the six engine is confusing To me looks to have a aluminum crankcase and a seperate bolt down mid section also the head does not seem to be a T either. My guess would be that it's a Metz six with a stretched T pan and trans. But did Metz ever make a six or is this stretched four also? Your thoughts??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 02:37 pm:

Mike, read the link John C gave above - it's an early experimental Ford racing engine raced by Frank Kulick, later remade into an evolving speedster for Edsel Ford, shown at the Ford museum from the 30's until it was sold in the unfortunate auction in the early 80's.

Did anyone see it in any auction lists after march 2010? Would be interesting to hear what it sold for..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:02 pm:

Ralph, having grown up on a dairy farm, I can assure you that most cows do actually have six, but two are non-functional. I don't recall seeing any with eight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:07 pm:

I know someone that had many of the exp. engines, I'll try and contact him and see if he has one.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

Thanks Rodger, I'm glad you pointed that out to me. I stand corrected.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 04:38 pm:

The v-8 motor is just Twins. 4 Tits on each side. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 05:08 pm:

There is one in Lincoln NE at the Speedway museum. I believe Bill Smith bought it years ago from Ford on one of their museum sales.

If you attend the MTFCA tour in Lincoln (shameless plug) you will see it during the tour.
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 05:51 pm:

The car in the photo looks like it has 1926-27 fenders, yet the coil box is on the cowl.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 08:22 pm:

The cowl is also a 1926-27 and that area normally contains the gas tank.

Note the lower center blank area where the gas filter and shutoff are normally located on a 1926-27 Model T.

Blank


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Woolf on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 08:45 pm:

One of the 6 cylinder vehicles is in the car museum in Wells, Maine. Note the water pump!



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eddy Lee Emerson on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

The Oklahoma Special T's toured to the "Robbers Cave State Park" to participate in a car show there. The Oklahoma built 6 cylinder was also on display. At that time the car had a 26 roadster body. According to the owner , his grandfather raced the car in California and it had gone through about seven different bodies. The engine was two three cylinder blocks welded together in a backyard forge and the biggest problem was getting the cam shaft properly hardened


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 09:15 pm:

Aaron,

That Plant across from from the lake in Emeryville became Berkley Pumps. I used to call on them in the early 70's. At that time many of the old machine tools were still there, line shafts and all. The boss back then was Don Bickerstaf who told me Hall Scott had their factory before Berkeley bought it. He showed me many pictures of the Aero engines from WWI but I never knew about the Ruxtels. I did mention to him that as a kid My dad had a Caterpillar 2 Ton tractor that had a Hall Scott designed engine, Which he confirmed,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 02:50 am:

How could they go through 7 bodies? So now i know what to do if i get alot of money... find 2 cracked blocks and join them for a speedster like claytons only different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 07:10 am:

Dan, that vehicle has the engine with the head that I saw at the Boothbay Railroad Museum about 1985.

There is no sure way of knowing whether two molds were cut to cast the block or whether two engines were cut and welded together.

There is a one cylinder Model T engine in the MTFCA Museum that was cut and welded together. That engine runs and demonstrates the capability to make the welds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison, Portland Oregon on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 01:33 pm:

Kep,

That would be cool, a roadster like mine with 6 Model T motor :-)

If I was going to crazy and build a motor like that....it would be a V-8 :-)

..however, building a Model T 6 with an OHV head like a Type C ROOF....24 valves and 4 or 6 Winfield SR carbs... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 02:00 pm:

Edsel Ford was built several 6 cylinder engines around 1910. I saw them at the "Ford Museum" in about 1955. At least one was in a Model R or S. Several were sold when the museum sold off what was considered surplus vehicles. The Model R or S has been featured on this forum. At least one had a Model T Brass Radiator and was probably in a Model T chassis. That one had a "speedster" body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 05:23 pm:

Was Edsel allowed to tinker in daddy's work shop (factory) in 1910? he would have still been a school boy of about 16


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 05:25 pm:

Imagine having a full foundry at your disposal to tinker. Oh and a full staff too!....brat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Archer on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 05:36 pm:

The picture of the 6 cyl. T taken in 1956 at Lake Merrit belonged the Jim DeFrange. He was a member of the Northern CA. Model T Ford Club. When he died his wish was to have it donated to the Henry Ford Museum. They would'nt accept it. The last I knew it stayed with the family.
Ed #4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:49 pm:

Your first post Ed?
Glad to see your name on a post.
Do you know who built the 6 cylinder engine, and how?
Don't be a stranger here.
You have been mentioned here many times and a couple of weeks ago a picture of your streatched touring was on this site.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:00 pm:

There was also a 6 cylinder prototype Model J with Model N style body and extended chassis. It does not have the Model T removable head and enclosed transmission, but the Model N/K style jugs and open transmission. It now resides in Australia.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 12:48 am:

Around 1924 Ford commissioned Elbert J. Hall to build a six cylinder motor for the Model T Ford. At least one engine was built. There is a picture of it in our new book, Glover E. Ruckstell and the Ruckstell Axle. Ford abandoned the idea because it would require a longer hood and he soon started design of his first flat head V8 for future production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 08:51 am:

Glen,

Maybe that is the six cylinder engine in Lincoln NE at the Museum of Speed (Bill Smith collection). I know I have photos of it somewhere, I'll try to find them.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 08:57 am:

Found pics of it. I forgot, it also has OHV and a distributor. I believe it came from Ford with many other items Mr. Smith bought on one of Fords sales.

http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/Ford-Model-T-Experimental-OHV-6-Cylinder,15 329.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 03:43 pm:

The photo I have is of the right side of the motor. It is a Hall-Scott photo. I also have a copy of the original blue print which is also in my book. It uses an original Ford transmission and cover with an extended Ford pan. It has a distributor and oil/water pump or magneto drive on the right side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Archer on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 06:27 pm:

Aaron, once in a while I find the time to tune in on the forum, and it's usually an enjoyable experience. In answer to your question, as stated in the newspaper article near the beginning of this post, it was built by his father in Oklahoma, back in the twenties. Truly an amazing welding job. It was really hard to see where he welded them together.
Ed #4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Holger T. Berthelsen on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 01:08 am:

My grandfather,and my dad had a repair shop in Berkeley CA from 1906 till 1962.I just remember my dad being really impressed with this 6 cylinder Model T.It's always fun to see what pops up as time goes by. Holger


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John M mASLACK on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 12:52 pm:

The late KIrk Wright built a 6 cyl t engine in 1993. It was in a speedster in Arizona. He wrote a nice article about it in one of Jim Cullinane and Howard Gengrich's speedster books, which are still available and worth every penny to a speedster enthusiast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

We ground the camshaft for Kirks 6 Cylinder engine. Kirk was one interesting guy. Too bad he's gone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 04:24 am:

Some where in my stash of pictures, I have a picture of a T six cylinder engine taken at the Henry Ford Museum in '64. As I recall, it was painted a kind of a bronze or copper color, and had some nickel plated parts, the exhaust manifold being one of them. I don't recall the history of it very well, but I think it was listed as an experimental engine. Anyone else have any information on it? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bede Cordes, New Zealand on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 04:37 am:

This is an interesting thread you guys. A 6 cyl T engine sure would be a amazing thing to see and hear running. Has anyone ever known/made one of Henry's X engines (original or other) to run in these more modern times ?

Regards,

Bede


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 05:46 am:

David, Here is a scan from my 1964 copy of the " Model T Ford Restoration Handbook " It's not a six cylinder motor but it does have the finishes on the motor you mention. Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bede Cordes, New Zealand on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 06:07 am:

John,

I looked for that engine when I was at the Henry Ford in 2005, but couldn't find it. An original brand new T engine, never been run. Wonder if it's crankshaft is crack free....

Regards,
Bede


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