Low gear not pulling

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Low gear not pulling
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KIRK Harrisburg Ore. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

I know that transmission adjusting has been beat to death on this forum but im going to ask again. Ive been trying to get this car to leave in first gear but it just wont go. It appears to have high gear witch I know is direct and has a good reverse but i just cant get low. Is there a way to manually engage neutral to see if the bands are any good. I have adjusted the low speed adjuster in and out and it still barely pulls...Any advise would be great please


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:25 pm:

Jim, have you looked at the low band? is the lining worn out?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KIRK Harrisburg Ore. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:30 pm:

it appears to be there how do you tell if its worn out


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:41 pm:

How far does your pedal go down when in low and how much adjustment do you have left on the low speed adjustor? Just looking won't tell you much beyond there's some lining left on the band.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 09:46 pm:

a normal lining is about 1/8 inch thick or more when you look at it, do you have the cover off? If the lining looks ok, adjust it up so that the pedel comes almost to the floor board when the lining is compressed nicely around the band. If the cover is off and you watch it, as you depress the pedel it should squeeze around the drum nicely, and hold it tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KIRK Harrisburg Ore. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:04 pm:

The thickness appears ok ?. the rod on the end of the adjuster and the rod on the other end of the band are coming in contact when you press the pedal down so I would assume the lining is worn out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KIRK Harrisburg Ore. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:23 pm:

Is it very hard to pull out low gear band and look at the lining or replace ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:28 pm:

sounds like it is time for a lining. I like Kevlar myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:32 pm:

Jim

Would think that is the issue, time for new lining.

The only other thing is perhaps, if you are running removable-ear bands, and the low speed shaft was cut off to install these bands in a T that didn't have them, the shaft may be too long, the Service Bulletins show the amount to cut off the shaft. That would bottom out the shaft against the adjustment screw, but this is only a guess. Most likely the lining is gone.

Here are my wood linings in the '27 at 1000miles. Note the low is about normal space for at rest, without pedal down to engage.



Here is the same, now 'bout 6000miles, and with some extra wear on that Guinn wood low band lining, as made a mistake and lost oil, pretty much used up the wood. Note the compressed low band spring now,at rest, as that is the amount of distance the low adj screw is now turned in. Time to re-line. The reverse is fine, and of course the brake is fine, its loose as I run Rocky Mtn brakes that do the work of stopping the T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:33 pm:

If the two are making contact, the return spring is probably spoiled as well. Change the bands and DO NOT FORGET to ad an oil screen and magnet under the cover!! ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KIRK Harrisburg Ore. on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:38 pm:

I can say that the end of the shaft appears to have been cut. Do I change all the lining or can I just change the low speed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:14 pm:

That low pedal shaft should be cut about 7/8" from the shoulder, that will give enough clearance for band ear removable when coupled with the new-type adj screw with the short nose.



As my rule, change all three band linings at one time, unless you did the change earlier and can vouch for the linings condition yourself. Doing all at once is better as getting just one out may be tough, course I always do the big chore way and pull the starter Bendix, starter, exhaust pipe and manifold, and pull the hogshead :-) Lots of room and ease for me, getting those dang bands out the little cover isn't my cup of tea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 09:05 am:

Jim, I had this problem with one of my cars. I chased it around replacing bands, even tried a second set of bands. No one could figure out what the problem was. I pulled the transmission cover off of it. I checked the pedal assembly and found the cam was worn, and also play in the pin. So it wasn’t pushing it all the way into low. I replaced the cam and the pin and it was good to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 09:33 am:

I could barely get up the driveway when I first got my T. When I finally got enough guts and help from the forum I changed them to the Kevlar. The old cotton bands were as thin as a Kleenex barely anything there.. she climbs the driveway nice now... took me about a day for a first timer to change out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM KIRK Harrisburg Ore. on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 11:20 am:

Is there a how to on the computer for changing bands I dont have a manual and to be honest I dont want to wait for one to arrive in the mail. And if the rod on the end of the band was cut off (for whatever purpose) do I need any sort of special lining or can I just order a set out of my magazine..Thanks for all the advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 11:38 am:

I suggest the Kevlar bands, and a new set of washers and good springs. Many of the atermarket springs can be weak and not long enough, Langs sells a set of good springs manufactured by model T parts Co. They are good quality springs. Get yourself a copy of the little publication booklet from MTFCA (sold thru Langs) on the transmission and You will be all set for a good job. Just be careful and after installation bring the band up just enough to work, the you can set them up a little at a time until they break in and are just right. Especially with the Kevlar, dont go too tight on the break-end miles. And dont drop anything in the tranny box - washers springs screws, etc. Be careful!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 01:19 pm:

Jim

The Model T owner has to master the art of removing bands,replacing linings on bands, and to install and adjust. The Ford Service book is the bible, but trial and error is the teacher.

Pick your method first, if removing from the cover on the hogshead, get some tools shown in the Service Manual, to release the lugs and to remove the band a band tool-strap type to pull the band around the drum, is nice to have.

here is one method on the web.

Have Fun!

http://www.cimorelli.com/projects/relining_transmission_bands/relining_model_t_transmission_bands.htm



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 03:07 pm:

It is hard to remove and replace the hogs head cover, and it is a lot of trouble to get it sealed right so the oil will not leak out, but once you have it off, you can check the oil tube for lint and you can also more easily replace the band linings without as much possibility of distorting them. If you are planning to saw off the shaft between the pedal and the adjuster, you should remove the hogs head so you will not get metal filings in the transmission.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 04:13 pm:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a cracked low speed drum. Jim's original post is exactly symptomatic of the experience I had on my '27 coupe. Take the inspection cover off and use a shop light to illuminate the innards. Then have someone crank the engine slowly while you inspect the low speed drum. Hopefully this won't be your problem 'cause the repair is pretty major.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 02:30 am:

I, too, was surprised the possibility of a cracked or broken drum wasn't mentioned sooner.
Changing bands is one of the rites of model T. Many people advise removing the hogshead. I change them through the little cover. You do have to be very careful to not distort the bands. Distorted bands dragging on the drum while driving is one of the leading causes of cracked and broken drums.
One other bit of advice. You may need to only change the low-speed band. But always remove the front-most band (reverse band) first. THEN remove the middle (low speed) band. If doing all of them, or needing to replace the brake band, remove it last. When putting them in, reverse order. Back-most (brake) band first, followed by middle (low speed) band. Last in is the front-most (reverse) band.
Good luck!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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