This is a Facebook pic from a diver in Wisconsin's Lake Mendota. Max depth is about 80ft. I don't know how deep this car is. I think it is a 26 Tudor. The diver is using a rebreather and as such has no bubbles under most circumstances.
That's really unfortunate.
I'm not a fan of the "Nickel Era" cars. I like the Black-Radiator Era and the Brass-Era Model T's better because they're more better built and more reliable. So I'm thinking "at least it wasn't a Brass or Black-Radiator Era car"
Here is another maybe a TT
There is really no way to tell what type of radiator it had on it. Since nickel rads were not standard until model year 1927, that's a insignificant number of cars.
Also, one Model T was just as reliable as the next one. Or as crappy as the one before or after it. They were still assembled by PEOPLE, and no two people do anything exactly alike.
I don't think it's a "TT"
it does not appear to be a worm drive,
good thing I am not close, curiousity would make me get some rope and pull it up....
How did these cars just float to the bottom of the lake?
John,
Thanks for posting. They both appear to be car chassis -- as the TT has a worm drive rear axle and the drive shaft goes over the top of the ring gear rather than into the middle of the rear center housing.
The first photo is clearly 1926-27 coupe (probably a "diver's coupe). I believe the second photo is also a 1926-27 as it appears to have the larger rear brake drums (although the rear axle could have been swapped out.)
They are not prime candidates for restoration, but they might still have some usable parts. It is hard to tell from the photo.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
"float to the bottom"..... don't think they floated at all! Expect they fell thru the ice.
Oops, forgot a couple.
Yep probably a Lizzie.
Layden, I forgot they had to drive them on ice!
It's really sad to see those Model T's at the bottom. I wonder if the owner made it out alive or he got sunk to the bottom to.
Anyway you cut it, this is sad. Whats up with the abundance of sad Model T accident photos this week?
I pointed the diver who took these pictures to this thread.
Above is probably the worst diagram on earth.
Probably not an accident. Local dealers often bought up the running Model Ts and held contests as to when they would fall through the ice in the spring. It helped create a demand for new cars. All these photos prove is that I probably should forget about the ones alledgedly in the pond at Lincoln, Michigan.
Nice Garrett, now your beating yourself up!
First car looks like it was stripped so maybe they are stolen and dumped? Better report this and see if we can find the owners.
Tamara Thomsen
Thanks! Those forum notes are fun to read. BTW, I'm pretty sure no one died in either of these vehicles. There are three on the other side of the lake that had deaths- I'll get over there to photograph hopefully next week.
Nice one, John.
These cars would make a good photo to show where the parts are. The wishbone, rear end, drive shaft, rear wheels, and even a fish was very legible on the last diagram which I re-posted below.
Would you please stop drawing on the pictures???
Thanks....
WOW .... this kid can't get a break just scroll past it!
I'm so sorry.
I just had to name the parts.
I'm so sorry.
I just had to name the parts.
Hmmm,,, Lets see, There's the new felloes I need. I bet the springs are still good. There a good chance the crank might be able to be saved. Throw the engine into a barrel of fuel oil for a few years and it might just shock you as to what might come back out. I took a outborad marine engine that sat in a lake for years and got it running.
Will all true but if it was salt we would be looking at a bit of axle, frame and engine block. Freshwater and they last many times longer!
Was this saltwater or fresh?
Garrett this is fresh water. Our inland lakes are fresh water. Many are Reservoirs for drinking water and have dams for electric power. And are final resting places for Model T's
Garrett, just a little bit of information. All T's are pretty much the same as far as reliability provided they are properly restored, nothing rigged, and are given proper maintenance and care. Nickel cars are the most rugged T's in my opinion. The hogsheads are bolted to the motor block which prevents misalignment of the fourth main bearing and makes crankshaft failure less likely and also takes some stress off the crankcase. The 26/27 T's also have a wider transmission brake drums which is much more capable of stopping the car and larger parking brake drums with lined shoes while the earlier cars used bare iron shoes. Of course none of this means I would not love to have a brass or black era T.
Stephen
When I find fishing rods on the bottom of Table Rock lake, I find that if they are down for any time at all they are eaten up with corrosion. When I find one that has not been down long I keep it wet until back to my house were I disassemble it and clean and oil it right away. If I wait even a couple of hours it will corrode.
I can usually tell how long it is down by the amount of algae that is on it.
By the way, that is about the only way you can see fishing line when diving, by the algae that is on it.
I have bought very little fishing gear since I started diving.
Steven
I'll bet those spokes are tight....lol
It's sad that there are T's down there.
A while back I had done a Presentation on Estuaries, where freshwater meets saltwater. There are different kinds of Algae, which I didn't know.
Rare upside down Model T submarine. Ran when parked. Buy it now: $60,000.
Restored with great difficulty & many repro' parts. Or the basis for a speedster & sell the panels to someone on ebay.
I have forgotten what the depth is that oxygen gets so low that corrosion drops to very slow. It has something to do with too much sunlight being blocked. It probably is at about the depth where there isn't much algae.
John C, How deep do you dive down to?
I would say both of those Ts could be restored. Nearly all the sheet metal would have to be replaced.
Dive carefully, and enjoy, W2
A model A was pulled up 47 years after it fell through the ice on the big lake in Idaho.
After changing the distributor and cleaning the carb they had it running the same day they pulled it out.
It was on its left side which had a lot of worm damage.
They said the lack of oxygen kept it from rusting away.
47 years and it was not seized? That is amazing
Garrett - if you want to test your knowledge of parts without controversy and writing on photos try http://www.modeltford.com/quiz.aspx
You can also gauge your progression by your scoring v's the top scoring.
c'mon guys that coupe just needs a head.....I think these pics are hauntingly beautifully and really with exception of the desert areas if these cars had been sitting on land all this time they would have been picked apart or scrapped long long ago whatever was left there would probably have just as much corrosion or worse the fact the wood wheels are still there is amazing. check ot the 20's bugatti they pulled out of the lake in switzerland. crazy thing is divers knew about it for 40 odd years!
what year did they start using front bumpers? the upside down car appears to have one
This is off topic. For those interested this is me ready to jump into 100' of water. The wreck is a T era WWI armored cruiser the USS San Diego.
http://njscuba.net/sites/site_uss_san_diego.html
The was a time when me and a friend was diving a small lake in northern NY. You could just about see about four feet in front of you. We had a small rope to hold on to so we did not lose each other. Of course I lost the rope and lost my dive partner. The first rule of diving is never lose sight of your dive partner. So I surfaced and tried to find his bubbles and didnt see any and I started to get worried. I swam to shore took off my equipment and went to a bridge that crossed the lake found his bubbles and put my eqipment back and went to him. Sure enough he was tangled up in fishing line. Was he ever glad to see me. He said all he could think was that he could see the surface just 20 up and that thats how he would die looking up.
Will we dive solo all the time. Our buddy system is same ocean, same day. First rule of diving is don't hold your breath! Second rule is have several cutting devices. No one goes in without shears and a knife.
The only thing that would stop me from getting those and dragging them home is I cant float or dive and labor cost would be high to get someone else to do it.
Plenty of parts there.What a shame.
Neat photos.Wish I could drag 1 out and later drive it just show it can be done.
Legit question,what would be the condition of the tires,if not rotted when installed in the lake?
Removing them is not that hard. We would use several large lift bags and float them to the surface. Then drag them to the shore and if we are lucky there is a boat ramp near where a flatbed tow truck could get a cable to them. Otherwise its a small crane or boom truck to lift them and place them on a truck. Sounds easy in 100 words or less.
I stopped diving about 15 years ago because I could no longer equalize but it was the greatest adventure I ever had with my clothes on. There is no equal to the feeling of being under 50 feet of water and the only thing you can hear is the beating of your heart and the air that you are breathing. It a world like no other. I never dove salt water as at the time it was to far for me to travel plus I had this small rule,,, Fresh water you eat the fish, Salt water the fish eat you! But John is right, It would be very easy to recover those cars. Now keeping them in one piece on the way up might be another challenge. Years ago I helped recover a snowmobile with lift bags. Back then the finders fee was something like 40% of the item worth, Then the recovery was another fee. That’s how I bought most of my dive gear and beer money, Finding lost items in a small lake called Star Lake, NY…It really paid off being the only two scuba divers within 50 square miles. There was always some tourist losing something. On the tires, I would think that they might be ok.
I have gotten tangled up in fishing line and in anchor rope attached to anchors that have been lost from the boat. I carry a knife on my shoulder and a smaller knife on my bcd air release hose. Never on my ankle as it is too hard to reach when needed. I dive solo because most of the dive partners I have had have been students that need a lot of attention. Diving solo is just more relaxing for me.
Mack- I would think that the tube would not hold air and both the tube and tire would be rotted or nibbled on by fish.
It would be a miracle to get those cars to run, let alone restore them!
John - The wreck of the USS San Diego (ACR-6) is one of my favorite shipwrecks. Dove on it many times (50+) over the last 20 twenty years.
Rich
Rich we dive the Diego regularly. We use it as a warm up and to bring out new divers.It is the shallowest wreck on our schedule. I am the former President of the Sunday Dive Club. We dive the Lockness Dive Boat out of Freeport NY every Sunday. How long has it been since your last dive? Certification?
It would be fun to dive.
In the early 70's some fisherman snagged something in their net in Keweenaw Bay, in Lake Superior. When they pulled up the net, they discovered they had an old car caught but were unable to pull it out of the water onto their boat, so they "towed" it to shore and eventually pulled it up on a beach. Doing this caused the body to be ripped from the frame. It was id'd as an old Model T and the fisherman took a few "souvenir" items from the wreck including the wheels/tires, a couple of which still held air. A local Model T'er was called, and he took the remaining pieces. He worked on the motor, scraping and oiling etc, and eventually got the motor running! He also showed me a couple of the fenders, and in places, the paint was as bright as the day it was new.... and right beside the area the fender was completely rusted through. The local paper did a story on it and a reader responded that just after the war (this would be WWI) he often went ice fishing with his buddy and on one trip they were fishing when they heard a noise and turning around, they watched the car disappear through the ice! That day they were using his buddies car...... His buddy had long since passed away. That's the story told to me by the guy who got the engine going. I used to know his name, but alas, I think I've done good just to get this far with the story..... and I'm not even sure if I'm even remembering all this correctly......
Honestly,I dont see it being much more trouble to get those to run as it was this.
This was parked in 45.I had it running after about 3 days work.Coulda drove it but left it on blocks.It is now my speedster project.
Garrett.
It is
The A in Idaho still had air in the tires after 47 years.
If cars are down deep enough they will not rust or seize.
There was a native American that washed up on shore on the north side of Lake Superior about 50 years ago.
Although he was well preserved they say he was down 300 years. Deep & cold.
During a long draught in our area some years ago there were a lot of boats found and dragged to shore or tagged and pulled up after the lakes were filled.
One of our model T families found a Chevvy powered aluminum boat that had sunk.
They wanted to drag it to shore with their crawler tractor but the wardens wouldn't let them.
They somehow marked or mapped the location and after the lake filled again they pulled it up.
The engine was pulled apart, cleaned and runs fine still today in the same boat it went down in. There was no rust or corrosion.