Is there anyway to get an idea of what condition the rear axle is in without taking the whole thing apart?
If you stick your finger in the hole and it comes out with silver oil and little chunks on it, that means rebuild it now. If the oil is clean, it means the worst hasn't happened. Yet. I doubt it's possible to see the trust washers through the filler hole.
Joe
Its not a big job to remove the rear axle and pull it apart-just messy!
Its certainly worth the time if theres still babbit in there!
Joe, I just had to rebuild my 27 rearend. I did a check for chunks and found none. The oil was dirty and some small shavings in it which I considered normal. The forum guys talked me into tearing it apart to replace the thrust bearings and I'm glad they did. I found one thrust bearing completely gone. The other thrust bearing was behind the pinion gear broken into several pieces and lodged in a way that the pieces had not fallen into the pumpkin. It wasn't that bad of a job, waiting for the replacement parts was the biggest pain. I now know what I have back there and can relax on knowing it is updated with the newer bearings and seals. It also gives you a look at the amount of wear and any potential problems before they strand you....or worse, leave you with no brakes. The guys here have their knowledge thru experience and that should NOT be ignored...thanks to all here for their priceless help !!!!
While there are some signs and symptoms that can indicate your rear axle has already failed, I can't think of any test that would prove it to be OK. For instance, barreling down a hill with a loud ratchetting sound and no brakes is a good indicator of a bad rear end. Easing down that same hill in low gear never needing to touch the brakes could indicate either a newly rebuilt rear end with bronze thrust bearings or a 90 something year old rear end with Babbitt thrust washers just barely clinging to life.
If you are going to drive this car, take the rear end apart and go through it, quite fun, and you won't have to worry about it. Not worth your life or the grandkids or some one else by taking a chance. Have fun, be safe, KB
ok I'm convinced to take it apart. Can someone tell me exactly what parts are needed. I don't mind replacing other components I just don't want to tear it apart anytime soon after this operation. I see all this stuff in catalogs but don't know what's what and I'd like to have everything on hand.
I hate to say it, but you will not really know what all you need until you get it apart and inspect all the parts. Do you have the MTFCA axle rebuild book? If not, it's the best $10-$15 you can spend. For sure, you will need the bronze thrust washers, gaskets, inner and outer axle seals. Most likely, you will need the pins and spacers, bearing races, Fun Projects pinion bearing. Depending on what you find inside, you could need all manner of other parts. Lots of folks put in a new ring and pinion. I ended up with a new drive shaft and 2 new axles. Axle bearings may need to be replaced. You really won't know until you get inside.
Joe -- Hal is correct. You just can't know what you'll need until you get all the parts out and measure each one for wear. One thing you can do is to order the new parts from a vendor close to you to cut down on the wait time. Your profile doesn't say where you are, but if you're on the left coast, you can order from Chaffin's or Ford-n-More, and if on the right coast, Lang's. In the middle of the country, order from Bob's or Texas T Parts.
Hal mentioned axles. Model T axles usually lead a rough life, due to lack of maintenance on the owners' parts. The hubs get loose on the axles, and the hubs and axle tapers both wear out quickly. If you find axle shims when taking it apart, or if the hubs are too far toward the center of the car, new axles are a good investment.
Here is a idea of what you may need, this is what I just replaced on mine a few weeks ago. Your situation would most likely be different.
2 bronze thrust bearings.
6 thrust bearing pins.
1 ring gear shim.
2 inner neoprene seals.
2 inner bearing sleeves.
2 inner bearings.
1 diff gasket.
2 felt axle spacers.
4 thrust plates.
The cost wasn't much but I was within the tolerances on the ring and pinion and axle wear.
Also purchased Glen Chaffins guide book of the forums website.
This is a picture of the thrust bearing behind the ring gear....not pretty.
Forum old timers may be muttering, "Oh boy, here he goes again." That's OK. I always preach that the first model T parts everybody should buy are these:
They will save you plenty of hassle, grief, and dough. More specifically, the axle book by Glen Chaffin tells you what to measure so you know what to replace, and how to do it. My one quibble with the book is that it's neutral on whether to use the original style pinion bearing or not. Any future axle I rebuild will get John Regan's replacement bearing.
I did the job for the first time this winter, so now I'm an experienced expert. Seriously, with that minimum training and the axle book I won't hesitate to do the next one.
Here's a video showing part of what I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfxWPsF4KhQ.
Which one Steve? The adjustable, or the non-adjustable?
I'm not Steve, but I'll answer that question. The non-adjustable one works and fits fine. There is no need to adjust it. John says he has the adjustable one available just because some guys "like to mess with things".
Thanks everyone for your input im out here in the SF bay area. Closest vendor is sacramento vintage Ford. But I get most of my parts from other sources. l will get the rear axle book, I already have the service book which has been invaluable. I plan on replacing as much as possible.
There is no way to tell without taking it apart. Even if it has been rebuilt before very often people throw them together with what ever they have laying around. Once properly rebuilt it will go for another 90 years.
Stephen
Joe, I would suggest Chaffins when it comes to rear end parts. Glenn wrote the book, and Dave at Chaffins is a wonderful source of very good advice. Just my $.02 worth.
Joe
I just finished doing the thrust bearings on my 1919 and glad I did it!
One bearing was almost gone.
I did it on the car but if I ever do it again I will pull it out.
I was lucky - I replaced the 4 thrust bearings and two of the pins.
I also used a dif gasket and new oil.
Got extra neoprene seals and felt washers but didn't need them.
When I got things apart I found that the new washers were within a few thousands of the old ones so I just put it back together.
It is quiet so I figure it will last another 90+ years.
The adjustable pinion bearing is handy when using other than standard gearing.
FWIW The easy way to replace those pins is either drill and tap 8-32, when you are tapping the holes the tap will push the pin out. Or you can use a screw after you get it tapped.