Wood band split

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Wood band split
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick J wegelin on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:29 am:

Hi Folks,
I just installed wood bands recently.
I was changing oil over w/e and had inspection cover off to clean screen.
I noticed one end of the brake band split, the other end is ok.
should i worry about this, or just let it go?
the split probably ends at the 1st rivet hole

tnx patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:50 am:

The same thing happened to me. I did let it go for a while.

Next time I had the cover off, the wood was squished out all around the band. When I pulled out the band the wood was all mushy and had fallen apart.

I switched to Kevlar and the problem was solved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick J wegelin on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 07:42 am:

any other feedback on my above problem?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 08:02 am:

Did you install the bands through the access opening or with the hogshead off? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 08:29 am:

PS. I guess it doesn't matter. The only reason I asked is to ascertain how the split might have occurred. Wood bands should be installed with the hogshead off and slid onto and over the drums from the rear. Attempting to install them through the access opening entails straightening them out, which could result in splits, pulling away from the bands and permanent distortion of the band, which needs to be perfectly round to function as designed and not drag on the revolving drum.

One way that carpenters and woodworkers have of stopping a split is to drill a hole at the end of the split where it stops splitting. That way the split will not continue its' journey through the wood. If your split only goes to the first rivet and stops, your split has essentially, been halted, just as if you drilled a hole at the end of the split. I would not worry too much about it and would not expect it to continue on.

However, if it only looks like it ends at the rivet but, in reality, continues beside the rivet, it could continue on, so be sure it ends at the rivet hole. Occasionally remove the access panel and have a look. If it has not split anymore after a year, I would not worry about it. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick J wegelin on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 08:31 am:

Hi Jim,
I installed with the hogshead off
and examined closely for cracks after riveting
didnt see any
but probably was a hairline I couldnt see
seems to have occurred during 100 miles of driving


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 08:44 am:

When I riveted mine, first got the bands as round as possible to conform to the roundness of the wood bands. I then clamped the wood linings to the bands with wood clamps so they were very tight against the bands and so there would be no gaps, which could cause a split during the rivet crimping process. I also used brass tubular rivets and a brake lining rivet tool to expand the rivets. I bought the tool from JC Whitney back in 1970 when they used to sell Model T parts. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 11:44 am:

I stated I might try wood bands if I ever ware out me Kevlar bands in another thread, I was concerned about them splitting..... After this read I guess I'll stay away from wood all together now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 09:33 pm:

Steve, Good choice. Just my humble opinion!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 09:45 pm:

Patrick I would get the wood bands out and go with the Kevlar. The Kevlar bands have been working great for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 10:10 pm:

Most likely the band failed because the counter sink hole was too deep or too much force was used when riveted. I have wood bands in both cars one being 26 Fordor and the other being a 26 coupe both of which are quite heavy cars. I never have problems with either one. Both cars get driven often with a lot of starting, stopping and reversing and I very seldom have to adjust the bands. As long as you do not slip the bands you do not need kevlar. When correctly installed the wood will not fail.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 10:16 pm:

I have heard of wood bands deteriorating but I have not experienced myself (and don't want to). In a conversation with another T owner he was wondering if it was caused by the grain of the wood running the wrong way or if there was some "sap wood" in the lining. I have also heard postulated that if water is in the oil that could have contributed.

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 10:24 pm:

Bill, there was a thread where a set of wood bands failed and the owner later discovered water in the oil. Of course the bands are going to fail when subjected to something that will cause them to rot. My bands have the grain running with the band not across. Personally I feel that wood bands fail from not being properly installed or from being in contact with water. Of course neither of these are a fault of the bands themselves.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 11:01 pm:

Before installing, I like to soak the wood bands in ATF (Oil) for several days. I do the same with Kevlar. Installing wood bands that are dry may increase the chance for splits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 08:29 am:

If you have water in your oil, wood bands are the least of your worries. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 08:48 am:

Soaking them in ATF before installation will certainly not do any harm, but it is my understanding that they are already impregnated with ATF or something similar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 08:54 am:

Yes Hal, when I received my set of Guinn wood bands, they were saturated with oil, not wet to the touch, but obviously very dark and slick with oil soaked all the way through. As part of the manufacturing process, Guinn probably soaks them in oil for a week or so, maybe longer and allows the excess to drain before packaging, so they come ready to use. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick J wegelin on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:48 am:

i hate to add fuel to the fire over band controversy. I've read all the posts on wood bands vs Kevlar etc, before i decided on them.
Obviously I'm not happy with the split, But I do believe It won't progress past the 1st rivet.
They do work well otherwise and so far happy with them.
I certainly won't yank them out at this point.
Too much work!
Yes these are Guinns and yes they were pre treated as Jim mentions.
Only time will tell if it was a good or bad choice, but I'm still leaning toward the good
Patrick


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