Transmission rattles in high gear only.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Transmission rattles in high gear only.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 11:39 am:

Have 40 miles on engine and transmission since overhaul. Besides having to adjust clutch (I was told to expect this) I also have a strange rattle only in high gear and mostly when the engine is lugging at low speed. I am wondering if the clutch fingers could be causing this. Anyone else ever run into this?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 12:19 pm:

I had a loud rattle in the transmission and it turned out that the nut on the reverse band had backed off almost to the point where it could have fallen off. Because the nut was so loose, the band was under no tension and was rattling and flopping around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 01:44 pm:

Hmmm, I wonder. I have added disc brakes and have the brake band adjusted loose to serve as a backup should the hydraulic system fail. I'll have to check that. Thanks Erik

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 04:09 pm:

Well, I tightened up the brake band. No change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 05:02 pm:

Remove the cover door. Throw the brake lever all the way forward and pump up and down on the clutch pedal. Do the drums move back and forth excessively?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 06:00 pm:

Stephan,
the reverse and brake drums rotate about 1/16 inch, but no noticeable fore and aft motion
Is that good or bad?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 06:52 pm:

Bob
1. In my opinion you should NEVER lug your engine down in high gear. By lug, I mean don't drive at open throttle in high gear at low speeds. I feel you are placing your crankshaft at serious risk of breakage. Loafing along with the throttle only slightly open on the level seems to be OK. If you then want to pick up speed advance the throttle a bit and as the car speeds up then you can open it up.
2. You have not mentioned where you have the spark advance set at these times. Assuming you are running mag ignition then about middle position would be about right for running along slowly and lightly loaded in high gear.
Others may have different opinions!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 07:17 pm:

Les,
it happens when I shift from low into high gear. It has just started doing this without any changes in the driving habits. I always reduce the throttle momentarily when I shift gears, a natural carryover from my years of stick shift driving. Ignition is by Henry's buzz coils, again same timing lever positions as before this started. Changing the timing made no difference to the sound. I'm with you on the "never lug your engine down". Thanks for your input

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

Bob
Ok that is all good. One other comment, I always "dump" the car into high gear. I have NEVER had much luck trying to "feather" it in. I just back off the throttle for about a second (so the engine doesn't race) and take my foot quickly off of the pedal. Then re-apply the throttle as needed. Other than this I am afraid I can not help you from here!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

Robert, that's normal to be able to rotate the drums back and forth a little. Are you sure the noise is not a loose bearing in your engine? Loose bearings are most obvious when the engine is under a load and that may be what your rattling is.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 09:42 pm:

Les,
That's the way I do it too. Seems to work best.
Stephan,
just got thru doing new pistons with caps and new mains bearing caps. That thought crossed my mind too. One thing I didn't like about the new pistons is that they have self locking nuts instead of castle nuts and cotter pins. I took the inspection cover off to check the bearings again but then the rain came. I am working in a carport with 3 sides enclosed so I'm still at the mercy of the weather :-(,
I'll continue tomorrow.

Thanks all,
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 09:46 pm:

Could you describe what you mean by rattle? Are you picking up speed, slowing down, or running at a constant speed when you get the "rattle" Could be a loose rod bearing if you get this noise when you are going along at a constant speed and then just slow a bit. It sounds like ddddd. I know you just "rebuilt" the engine, but sometimes the rod bearings will seem tight when you install them, but they only have high spots which quickly wear down leaving the bearing loose. If that is the case, you can remove shims to tighten them up with no problem to the engine if done soon.

If you know someone in your area familiar with the Model T, let him listen and maybe he can determining the cause and cure for the "rattle".
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:07 pm:

If I can ask... Have you checked end play of the crank shaft ? Before I rebuilt me engine it made simalair noises. My crank was walking back and forth.

Hope you find it and it's an easy fix for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:11 pm:

Also does the pedal bounce in high gear ? If so finger adjustments needed.

Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 12:00 am:

Are you sure its internal to the transmission? I would think its likely something with some extra play outside your transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 06:04 am:

Ted poses a good question. An awful lot of rear end noises make it up to the transmission through the torque tube and sound like transmission trouble, when it is in fact, rear end noise...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 08:25 am:

That was my first thought when I saw your question. Have you rebuilt your rear axle? Ted and Scott may be on the right track here. It doesn't have to be the rear axle producing fake transmission noise, either. Recently my "transmission click" turned out to be a failing front wheel bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 09:57 am:

That's what makes working on the T so much fun. The cause of the problem can be so far removed from where it it appears to be. The rear end was completely rebuilt. Only original parts remaining are the 2 axle shafts and the spider gear. The front axle was rebuilt including new bearings. The engine was just rebuilt. New pistons, mains caps, camshaft bearings etc. Seems like that leaves the crank handle and a bit of loose change in my pocket. :-)
Well, I'm about to "get out and get under to fix my automobile" as the song goes.
More grit in my hair and face!

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 12:27 pm:

Robert,

The term rattle can describe many things. Is it highly metallic in sound, light or heavy sounding, at a high frequency or in sync with engine rpms, etc.? The period just after you shift to high is a "special" time when engine vibrations are more pronounced and at a lower frequency that tends to vibrate/rattle any number of body or chassis components. Most of those sounds, while irritating, are harmless. Some notorious rattlers are the choke rod, the parking brake rods, doors, floorboards, loose side lamp fonts, license plates, your own teeth, the ignition key and the hood sides, to name a few.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 12:28 pm:

If the rear axle is off the hook, Don't be so sure it isn't the crank handle!!

I rebuilt a transmission for a fellow and when we started it up, periodically there would be a heck of a rattle. Had me stumped until someone saw the crank banging and flying around when the car hit a bump. New "eject" spring solved that.

I thought I was going to get to do another rebuild until someone else saw it happening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 03:30 pm:

On one of my cars, it had a "rattle" which sounded like something was breaking. This was most noticeable when going at slow speeds in high and when going over bumps. It turned out to be the hood and hood sills clanking together. I fixed that by cutting a small piece of rubber tubing and slipping over the hood right under the hood latch. On another car, I had a "knock" at slow speeds at idle and slightly above. It turned out to be the pin through the front pulley sliding back and forth. A kink in the center of the pin stopped that noise. Keep looking, eventually you will find it.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 09:10 pm:

Well it appears the crank handle was indeed the culprit. I normally have it tied up, but had been using it to turn the engine to line up the transmission for adjusting the clutch. That done, I jumped in without floorboards and went for a test drive. Rattle rattle. Could have sworn the noise was coming from the tranny. Just shows to go ya!

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 09:50 pm:

Well! You did find it. I knew you would. Not the things I thought of, but less expensive than others could have been!

That's wonderful news.
Norm


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