Spark Rod Coil Buzz Weirdness

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Spark Rod Coil Buzz Weirdness
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Milano on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 12:54 am:

90% of the time my coils will buzz at 11 o'clock where they should. Then I'll go somewhere stop the engine an the coils will only buzz at 8 or 9 o'clock. The I'll go somewhere else, stop the engine and the coils will buzz at 11 o'clock again. Through it all once started the spark rod works great. The timer is set with the rod connecting to the timer at 12 o'clock where it should be. Is this normal or is Lizzie playing tricks because she knows I'm a newbie?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 01:18 am:

The number one coil should buzz when number one cylinder is just past TDC on the compression stroke, with the spark lever up ... that's where the spark rod should set the timer. Engine RPM and compression will determine where it will stop rotating and that may be different every time you turn the engine off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 01:52 am:

ahhhhh.....any chance at the stop you try to stem wind on mag but start on batt when cold?

From what you describe, Lizzie may be ornery but usually not that mean to folks...unless you have tons of slop in the rod linkage on one direction gets 'er there, and the other doesn't have a prayer...........it is a pretty simple mechanism to walk it through.

Since a newbie...heed Hal advice...11 as shown in pictures isn't 11 unless all else is set to the 'stick' in its right place too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Milano on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 02:13 am:

So it's normal then?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 02:38 am:

Ah...No....

1-For each stick position there is a given position for the rotation on the timer. HAS to be that way. You find one location 'down' and another location 'up'for the same timer rotation....go looking for slop in the linkage.

2- mag start and batt start are two DIFFERENT positions on the stick (usually on a well set machine :-):-) ) but not as much as you describe, thats a bunch!

Easy check for a newbie to see where you are starting from...

...key off...move stick to 1/2 way...chalk the timer case to timer cover...hard to see but do-able. Go raise stick up and bring stick back to same place on quadrant...look at chalk alignment....do again with same chalk mark only stick down and back up...all lines up both directions...linkage should be good enough...if not time to go looking


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Milano on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 02:45 am:

So if I'm understanding what Hal is saying, depending on where the engine stops, It's possible to get a coil buzz with your spark rod in other positions than at the top only. Is this correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Milano on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 03:08 am:

When my spark rod is all the way up that timer cover is straight up between the 1 and the 3. There is no slop. It's all mechanical so what's telling those coils to buzz when it's in than position?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 03:19 am:

Randy, the pix explains it....

the roller is timed to the cam with a hidden pin and a nut...

the timer has places for the ignition ground to happen places where it won't. I want to say that the contact is across 37 degrees of cam rotation, but someone else prob knows the real number...it can't have a ground for the rest.

Moving the stick changes the start point of this ground with respect to crank orientation since the cam and crank are tied together at 2::1.

So, yes you can have a buzz at any point in that contact area...not in time with the piston because it is now late...but a buzz none-the-less

(Hope that makes sense)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 06:34 am:

Randy Milano - Pay attention -Very Important!!!!!!!

Only try to start the car with the spark lever all the way up. Otherwise it may kick back on you.

The engine stops in slightly different places sometimes. That makes the difference you see. It is normal. Just remember, ALWAYS have the spark lever all the way up when starting. ALWAYS!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 09:50 am:

Randy

Its simple. If your on battery, with the spark lever all the way retarded (Is there any other safe way to crank it ?) the coils should buzz at the same point of crank rotation every time.

There are a few variables such as poor timer contact, sloppy linkage, perhaps even poor contacts in the coil box / coils. All easily checked.

If they don't buzz at the same point you have a problem.

The Ford manual's suggestion of setting timing at 2.5 inches from center of spring bolt to center of pull rod has always worked well for me.

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 09:55 am:

Careful with the 2.5 thing. All timers are not made alike. I'm sure the 2.5" is OK for a Ford timer, but with any other brand, it's best to double check.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 10:02 am:

Sounds like you need a new clock :-)

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 10:16 am:

Remember the crank handle can be inserted in 90 degree different positions relative to the crankshaft position.
The handle can inserted at either 8 o'clock or 11 o'clock for the same position of the crankshaft.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 10:27 am:

A 4 cylinder generally stops in 2 possible places. A 6 in 3 places and an 8 in 4 places (give or take a few degrees). That's why Randy's "11 o'clock" position varies a bit from start to start.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 10:38 am:

I am puzzled by the fear of a kick back, I have set my spark to an advanced point just for the purpose of showing people what a kick back is. If starting technique is correct, a kick back should not be a problem. If a person has never experienced a kick back, then I do not think they can fully understand the dynamics of it.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 11:03 am:

Randy,
I believe Robert has the correct answer.

Maybe you can put a timing mark on the crank...

Matthew


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