Hood not fitting correctly

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Hood not fitting correctly
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fretschl Oshkosh Wi on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 04:28 pm:

Hi guys, got the car running and took it around the block for the first time. Went to put the hood on and it doesn't fit properly. one side is way tighter than the other. I don't understand how that can be. I didn't remove the body and the radiator bolts are fix through the fame . So how can I adjust it? I don't see how you can adjust the radiator to get it to fit better as all the radiator parts have fixed holes for mounting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 04:37 pm:

Can you post pictures of each side?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fretschl Oshkosh Wi on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 08:26 pm:

Hi Jim I'm not to good at that. It looks to me that the radiator is about a strong a 1/4 off from one side to the other[as the hood fits]. I just don't understand how it can be, when the radiator is fixed by the bolts that it is mounted on, it should be a no brainer that it should be the the same. I would think that the only adjustment you would have is the radiator rod at the top to set the radiator in and out at the top. I just can't see what I'm doing wrong. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 08:32 pm:

Here is a good recent thread on how to make the hood fit: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/275837.html?1332082776


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 08:35 pm:

Not saying this is your problem but if the body bolts are loose the body may have shifted slightly on the frame when you took the car for a drive. There is more play than you might think where the body bolts to the frame so if the bolts are loose the body can and will shift as the frame flexes. I have had to shift the body slightly to make the hood line up correctly in the past when restoring a car and there is definitely enough play to move things around a quarter to a half an inch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 08:42 pm:

Is the louver side panel on the hood the same height on both sides? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 09:02 pm:

John,

Often but not always a short history can help with the trouble shooting. I.e. did the hood fit properly in the past? If so did anything change or happen between when it did fit properly and now? You posted earlier about mounting the radiator using the proper method at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/288728.html?1336950649#POST431279
Were there any changes made to the radiator while it was off?

Note if the hood fit well before you took the radiator off and “IF” that was the only change – then there is a good chance it was slightly out of alignment when the radiator was last installed and someone shimmed the mounting area to line up the hood. You may want to do that again or you may want to find out why it was shimmed last time and correct the underlying problem so the hood does not need to be shimmed this time.

Of course if you also removed the hood shelves they may be at different heights above the frame etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fretschl Oshkosh Wi on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 12:30 am:

Hi all, just got a chance to get back on and check the posts from all you on my problem. I thinking from looking at what Rodger wrote and the former discussion that he posted I believe that it comes down to the radiator it self. I had changed radiators to stop a heating problem I had. At that time I reassembled it the way the old one was mounted and it didn't fit the best then [tighter on one side that the other]. But after now remounting it the correct way, it is was way worse than be for. My thought is to elongate the radiator mounting hole on the side that is tight and reset the radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fretschl Oshkosh Wi on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 12:40 am:

On second thought i don't know if that would work is I would have to elongate the radiator shell also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Robinson on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 07:38 am:

The hood on my 25 touring overlapped on both sides. I pulled the frame and checked measurements throughly (sag was nonexistant, corner to corner checked, but rails were twisted somewhat and I corrected them and adjusted spread). I reassembled the body back as far as the minimal bolt slop would permit and installed the radiator and shell as far forward as bolt slop would permit. Guess what ....... I still had the overlap. I finally bit the bullet and fabricated offset radiator bolts setting the radiator and shell a tad under 3/8" forward which necessitated installing both mounting springs above the frame. I used a short lower spring to help offset the 1/4" bolt offset. The hood now fits great and the small offset in front between the fenders and the skirt is hardly noticable. I have wondered if my hood or radiator shell are too long possibly from prior replacement. I would appreciate it if others with 25s would measure their hoods and post the measurements here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 08:04 am:

The measurements below are for a "High Hood" which could begin with the change over sometime in 1923 to 1925.

The 6 louvered panel is 13 3/8" tall in the front and 14" tall in the rear and each panel has two dimples for the latches. If it doesn't have dimples, it's not correct.

The top panels are 13 7/8" from center hinge to outside hinge in front and 18" from center hinge to outside hinge in rear.

The top panels are 24 3/4" front to back.

If your 25 hood varies significantly from these measurements, it's wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fretschl Oshkosh Wi on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:35 am:

Today I'm going out the the garage to take some measurements. As I was told back when I bought the car, that it was done [liquid over haul] back in the early 80's. Now looking at the posts to my question, my guess is that the car was put back together with out checking to see if the body was true to the frame. That accounts for the way the radiator was installed incorrectly to make the hood look correct. Is there any slop in the bolt holes that mount the body to the frame?With out you guys on the web site helping me with your comments, I think I would be to the point of throwing a can of gas at it in frustration! For such a basic car it can really challenge a person!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Robinson on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:57 am:

My hood measures a full 25" long. If it were 24-3/4" it would be tight but would fit. I see Langs currently lists this hood length as 24-3/4" however it seems to me that the older catalog listed it as 24-7/8". I hate to think of buying a replacement hood since I have installed the offset bolts but it's going to bother me I know. Maybe I'll have a weak moment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:19 am:

John, Ford wasent in the "very close or tight fit business" when the Model T's came off the assembly line. There are many examples where the body fit up points werent always 'perfect'.
Body panels, fenders, hoods were pretty closely assembled but they werent perfect.
After looking at original unaltered cars over the years and buying original sheet metal parts at meets I began to see minor differences. I once bought a Coupe deck lid that was in almost NOS condition and discovered it was 3/8" out of square!
In your situation it may take a little handiwork to get things squared up.
I gave up trying to build a perfect T after finding out that Ford didnt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:41 am:

Check and make sure that the front pan mount is centered between the frame rails. Loosing the front spring u-bolts, you can re-center the mount and engine.
Check the frame to insure it is has not sagged or bowed on one or both sides. You do not need to remove the body to check for sag. Make your measurements using the top frame edge as your reference point. A tight string works just as good using a laser.
You can also loosen the body mounting bolts and use shims for alignment. Even if the frame has some sag....adding shims in the correct place can correct hood and door alignment issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:14 am:

Your profile shows a 26-27 coupe. If that is the car you are fitting the radiator to, and the frame is straight with no sag, here are a few things to try.

The radiator on the front should have two springs on each side. One below the frame and the other above the frame and hood apron. A thimble sits on top of the upper spring, then the radiator and radiator shell, then another thimble with a nut. There is about 1/4 inch of adjustment you can make by loosening or tightening the castle nut on the top at each side. You will also note that one of the two springs is higher than the other. You can try switching the position of the springs so that the lower spring is on top on the side of the radiator you want lower, and the higher spring is on top on the other side. That will cause the radiator to lean one way or the other to a certain extent. That might fix your problem. If not, the next adjustment is to loosen all the body bolts and raise the body on one side. That will move the center of the rear of the hood in the opposite direction of the side the body was raised. When you get it to fit right by those two adjustments, you will need to shim up the body on the side which you raised. You can put in some large washers on that side at the bolt locations to hold it in place. When you get the cowel adjusted, then check the doors. You might need to raise or lower the rear part of the body to make the doors fit. The body can be lowered by planing down the wood block and raise by placing washers between the frame and the wood block, or replacing the wood with a thicker block. I know that is a lot of work, but it is much better than filing or changing the radiator mounts. And it will be less obvious than altering the radiator.
Norm


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