Had that kind of day today.
Testing '21 Autowa some, running a bit to set free neutral and adjust low band and brake band. Going well until the starter did that 'whirling' sound, dang, stuck.
Removed the Bendix cover, no big issues, some scrapes, I always trim down the Bendix spring bolt heads, they seemed not to be the problem. (bit of stuff is some hardened sealant)
So removed the reproduction Bendix and replaced with original, you can see the stuck Bendix in this video:
YouTube: Stuck repro Bendix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZcJGl1l9SY
Well...then after replacing that repro with the original, the T started just fine, and went for a spin to adj free neutral some more.
Made 2 loops around the 'hood and just coming into the driveway, muffled bang/pop sound, from the tranny?..but motor was running, low pedal not slowing the T driving in,...whoa....no brake. Shut off the motor by switching off the key and steering to a soft landing spot
Had to roll to a stop in the grass by the house. Of all things, the emergency rods were off, as I was adjusting for free neutral, and those things are set after that.
Oh me. Lucky. Was at home in the driveway when this happened.
Rear axle I believe is the culprit.
You Tube: Differential doesn't work anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHwqCZo3jZ4
Maybe your Ruckstell is in neutral.
Mike
Maybe.
I can shift it to Ruckstell but only a faint turn in reverse of one wheel if that makes sense. No forward action in Ruckstell or out.
Can't figure it yet. Engine runs, but low pedal won't turn the wheels. Have the rear on jack stands now.
Dan,
Something is not connected between the engine and the rear axle. I had my U-joint go out and the symptoms were similar. Model T was real easy to push without the transmission drag!
Dan,
I’m so sorry to hear of the problem. I am so thankful it was in your driveway and you had a safe place to stop. While there are not many Autowa bodied Fords there are even fewer Dan Treace's and we want you to stay around!
You already know how to trouble shoot the driveline so you can skip the rest of my posting. For others, some ideas on how to trouble shoot the problem:
Clearly something in the drive line is wrong. You can start from either end and start checking for where the movement drops out.
With one other person to hold the pedal down (sounds like any pedal will probably work for this test -- but you check them all just to make sure), with one of the rear wheels off the ground (car chocked safely) manually turn the rear wheel that is off the ground. There may be a clicking sound -- if so -- locate where it is coming from. An axle key way could be broken, an axle could be broken, the thrust washer could have failed or be out of adjustment and the ring gear is slipping on the pinion, the drive shaft could be broken, the drive shaft pinion could be too far forward allowing the pinion to slip on the ring gear, the u-joint could have failed, the u-joint mail square that fits into the into female square out put shaft of the transmission could have failed, something in the transmission could have failed. I don't think the crankshaft to transmission failed -- as you said the brakes did not work and if the crankshaft flange broke low and reverse would not work properly but I think the brake would still function.
And of course the Ruckstell rear axle would add additional items to check. They can fail in neutral if the shifter fails; shifter is adjusted wrong, certain worn parts etc.
If there is no noticeable noise -- remove the oil filler plug from the axle housing, place the car in gear, and have someone turn over the engine (ignition off) and see if you can see the ring gear turning or not.
And clearly another safety item for me to add to my list. Don’t drive the car without some sort of emergency brakes in case the drive line brakes fail for some reason. (Ok – I’m guilty – but I was a teenager back then and I thought I was bullet proof. Since that time I’ve moved a few things from the “aw its nothing to be concerned about list” over to the “lets not test our luck on this one list.”) And I just moved another item over.
Again we are so thankful that you are ok!
Hap l9l5 cut off
Thomas and Hap
Thanks, ya Hap, I know better with the emergency brakes out of action, but just didn't expect the outcome. Testing and setting the trans low and neutral is always done on the jack stands, then re-fit the emergency break rods.
But.... was just wanting to get to level ground and test the neutral, rolling and setting the cam bolt on the cross shaft...
then a little ride down the street.
Tire tracks in the wet grass where the T finally rested!
Have done the checks tonite a bit. Took off the Univ Joint cap cover screw over the U-joint rivet, and then hand cranked over the engine, and that U-joint does turn. With the rear axle up on jack stands, the wheels will not turn.
So, that rear end is in neutral, the gears aren't engaged.
There is play of 1/4" or more of the torque tube ball in and out of the universal joint ball cap.
In position
Out position when pulling on the Ruckstell shift lever.
The course is set to remove the rear end, and see what can be done.
This is not likely the cause of the rear axle problem, but you should not have that much play in the Universal ball joint. There are two possible causes. one is a gasket between the 4th main and the ball cap. It doesn't look from the pictures that you have a gasket there. If it is there it should not be. The other cause would be wear on the ball joint. Shims can be cut to place between the cap and the ball to eliminate that play.
The other problem you have is likely farther back in the driveline. It could be anywhere between the universal joint and the axles. Something is either broken or out of mesh. If you have a neutral in the Ruckstell, you should be able to shift it into gear. If the shifter will snap from Ruckstell to high, and the engine will still not turn the wheels, it is not in neutral. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think you will need to completely disassemble the rear axle in order to find and correct the problem.
Good news is that you did not wreck the car.
Norm
Norm
That seems right, the rear axle is the problem, the shifter will go from Ruckstell to high, shift lever snaps the shift lock back and forth, in and out of Ruckstell, but wheels will not turn when applying engine power.
Have the club Ruckstell book, the innards of that axle will have to be investigated.
The ball cap will need shims, only gasket there is between the 4th main and the hogshead/pan for oil leak prevention.
My other idea was a sheared pinion gear key, but I was hoping for something easier to deal with so I mentioned the other first. Did you put the cotter pin in the pinion gear nut?
Dan T,
Congratulations! (On still breathing) Seriously, I am very grateful that neither you or the car were hurt. Rear ends can be rebuilt or replaced easily, and you don't need my advice to do that (you probably know more than I do). Cars can be re-restored. Friends are harder to replace or rebuild.
I won't say the name, but a well known model T restorer from the early days of the hobby was killed when test driving his (then) current restoration without the brake rods installed. Something in the Ruckstell failed, he and the T were wrapped around a utility pole.
Again, glad you are okay.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Put my dollar in the pool for a split pinion gear.
Also grateful no one was hurt and at least it was not on the first day on a national tour! I had a similar problem with my Rucktell after taking it apart the old thrust washer had failed shifting everything out of place and destroying the ring and pinion. Thrust washer is my guess. Good luck Dan.