Off topic in a sense.Air supply question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Off topic in a sense.Air supply question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

Ok,I wont go into detail yet to keep from boreing ye.But is there a logical way to route a air supply from 1 building to another?
Underground? Just something I am trying to fiqure out if it would work.I have something going that will amount to me being able to get my blasting cabinets out of my shop and into a smaller building.Makeing more room in my shop for T work and such.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:40 pm:

Yep, 3/4 pvc pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:42 pm:

Mack I used the 3/4 cpvc, been in for several years and no problems. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:45 pm:

I used 1/2" pvc pipe underground and put a "T" where the pipe came through the wall so I could install a leg going down with a valve on the end to drain condensation. The pipe does not have to be very deep as it doesn't care anything dangerous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:54 pm:

Some details would be appreciated.I have not done much with pvc.I would need to know what grade,and such.I know there is different colors for different pressures.I do appreciate this.
What it amounts to is I am getting a 8x24 "building" for 200 bucks deleiverd and will be putting my wood lathe,metal lathe and wood working tools in it.
My blasting cabinets can fit in there to.
It is going to be a "oddball" setup,but it will free up alot of room in the shop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:02 pm:

Mack: PVC schedule 40 (rated for 600 lbs). It is cheap, east to work with. Put a ball valve on the end to drain condensation.

BTW: the metal lathe and the blast cabinet is not a good mix in a small area. Grit is the problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:10 pm:

Good point Jack. I had thought about that.Due to the amount of space I will be makeing just removeing the wood related stuff,I may leave the metal lathe in the big shop.
Schedule 40,ok.I would assume the standard cleaner-prep and then pvc glue? Sounds like this is very doable.I appreciate the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Brownsburg,In. on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:23 pm:

Mack,I have used it for 20 years now. Just let it set at least 24 hrs before pressuring it up. The low point bleeders for water removal are very important.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:26 pm:

Easy as pie and trouble free. Also easy to make changes, add on etc. Transition to pipe thread and screw in coupler bodies to plug your hose into. I have had this set up for over 35 years with no problem. Install a coupler on your compressor and use a short hose between the compressor and pipe to eliminate vibration related issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:44 pm:

Thanks fellows.I will post a photo or 2 sometime when I git this thing setup.
My dad and my neighbors are wondering how it is going to work.But it should do fine.
What it amounts to is a neighbor a half mile away was a school bus mechanic.So for a storage building for his home shop,he had a 60's Thomas built school bus body out back.It is not on a chassis.Just the body.it has some rust but not a problem.It has been there since I was in middle school that I can remember.It will get painted the colors of my shop,and have some latice I have stored put around the bottom.When I git done,it wont look bad.Well lite inside during the day,should be easy to light at night.I just do small wood related things.Makeing ink pens,makeing skids to mount antique engines to and such.So there will be plenty of space.
And it will git all that dust out of the shop!
I have a vacuam to hook up for dust collection.Just didnt want to bore a hole in the side of the new shop for it to ventalate to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:06 pm:

Mack,

Jack makes a good point: Be sure there are no low points in the pipe to collect water that you cannot drain. If possible, pitch the pipe so the middle is higher than the ends; or, so one end is lower than all the rest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:22 pm:

Here's a tip for connecting PVC to metal (copper, brass, steel) pipe...... Such joints are typically threaded. For threaded mixed joints be sure the male end is on the PVC and the female end is on the metal pipe. If it's the other way around, often the metal male threaded pipe will expand the female PVC to the point of splitting it before it becomes sealed for high pressure. When the PVC is male, it can be threaded quite tight into the female metal fitting as female fitting will serve to compress, as opposed to expand, the PVC....and not damage the male threaded PVC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Thomas on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:33 pm:

I would not recommend PVC pipe. PVC pipe gets brittle with age. Sunlight, and light from electric welders hastens the process, making it even more brittle. Even new pvc pipe will explode in to a million tiny shards. It splinters if it struck while under pressure, such as if something falls against it. I have seen it in many shops, and it is a time bomb waiting to take you out.

PVC pipe is made for water. Water does not expand like compressed air. If a pipe filled with water and it breaks because of the pressure, it doesn't explode like one filled with compressed air.

You will not find any manufacturer that will tell you pvc pipe is made for air, water and other liquids only.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Brownsburg,In. on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:38 pm:

That is why you use schedule 40 PVC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:50 pm:

Hi Mack, I would use 1 inch schedule 40 pvc. The price is close but the volume is greater. You are using a blast cabinet. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M Philpott on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 11:51 pm:

the pvc pipe is just fine but I always use sch 40.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 12:31 am:

Mack,

In my opinion, I strongly vote AGAINST any form of PVC or plastic pipe. Over time with heating-cooling-heating-cooling-summer-winter-high pressure-low pressure-expansion-contraction PVC will become brittle and shatter even at pressures lower then rated. I strongly recommend that you bite-the-bullet and put metal (galv or copper) in your system. Just my two cents.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 01:19 am:

If you are running the pipe underground then sched 40 pvc will be fine. You are using it in a NON-Commercial (ie private) location. You cannot use PVC for air in commercial applications (at least not in Taxifornia). Don't use it outside as the sun will degrade it and the sound of the explosion will scare the *%#@ out of you.
If you are nervous about failure then buy the grey PVC tubing in Shed 80.

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 02:11 pm:

Thanks,yes,it would be underground for about 40-50 feet.
Down hill.So there would need to be a drain past the the inlet into the "work shed".
Supposed to be getting this rig hauled tommorow morning.I hope all goes well and I can get it home.1/2 mile on a roll back.I will have to do the basic leveling.It will be setoff on some blocks and the rollback will leave.
So I guess I will git some experiance with a jack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 03:33 pm:

Bill, Mack, the only drawback to to the grey sched.80 pipe are the threaded ends. Over time they will neck and start to leak. It keeps me busy with water well applications that have gone this route.

I have a friend who plumbed his shop air with PEX. It is softer and will not fracture as easily if hit with something. Under ground, sched.40 PVC should be just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Thomas on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 08:02 pm:

PVC is banned by OSHA for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Do a little more research beyond the Model T Forum, and think you might be convinced. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but the evidence is out there that PVC goes off like a bomb. The older it gets, the more it is exposed to sunlight and extreme temperatures, the more likely it is to happen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

I agree with Michael. VERY dangerous. Sure, it can hold the pressure. It's when something hits it that the trouble starts. Especially after it has become brittle due to age and/or sun light. Something flies off the drill press or out of the lathe or possibly just falling against it and what would cause a crack and a leak with water, causes shrapnel to fly in all directions with compressed air. When water under pressure expands a fraction of an inch, its pressure drops to practically zero. Air is still at the 120 psi it started at. It expands MANY times its original volume. It's probably OK underground, but I would use metal for ALL the above ground part. And this coming from someone who a lot of you think is quite cavalier when it comes to safety.

If you must use plastic, find some flexible tubing that is made for compressed gases. It may get a hole or a split, but it won't shatter and send shrapnel in all directions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Stephan Two Rivers Wisc. on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 09:54 pm:

I vote for steel Mack... but Im a dummy. Semi permanent use hose, but shy away from even air rated tubing. Welding or cutting or something sharp falling will cause a rupture as well. Paint thinner vapors do weird things. This is a hydrostatic PVC test with water... ws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BipJeaiQik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 10:52 pm:

Well,I will eventually want to drill a hole in the shop wall at the compressor,put a pipe thru the wall,probably a inch pipe.Then I can connect to that from the compressor with a short rubber air hose.The pipe whatever type,will come out of the wall and drop about 4 foot outside the building and be buried about 43 feet.I measured it today.I fiqure about a foot deep is plenty good.And I wouldnt have to worry about hitting anything powerline wise where i am going with it.I just cant see buying another 1200 dollar compressor when I should be able to run a line.
I understand about the sun and pvc,but underground the main danger I would think would be rocks,so I was looking at getting a loader bucket of sand from the local guy that sells mulch down on the corner and put that around the line in the ground.Regardless of what material it is.I aint sure galvanized pipe will make it long under ground will it? In the "workshop" It will just be the pipe from the ground,going up thru the floor and up about 4 foot.Anything I did in the work shop will be done with a rubber airhose run over to that connector so there will not be much pipe at in there.No welding at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 02:52 am:

In a former life, I worked in a lead recycling plant. We had a large compressor that supplied both the mechanic's shop and the welding shop, which were both in the same large building. It had a three inch sch.80 PVC line that ran the length of the building to supply the welding shop. The only problem that we had was the line would break once in a while at the compressor. We solved that with a stainless steel flex line about a foot long. I worked there for nearly fourteen years and OSHA never said anything about PVC air lines. We also had them in many other places in the plant. That being said, that was seventeen years ago and OSHA may well have had something to say about that since. In fact, I would be surprised if they didn't, not because of any safety issue, but just because they can. Dave


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