Broken spindle bolt (kingpin)

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Broken spindle bolt (kingpin)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 09:53 pm:

Anybody ever break a spindle bolt off in the spindle? I am at a loss on how to get the rest of the bolt out of the spindle that is still installed on the car.
Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 10:27 pm:

Post a picture.Top or bottom broke?
I thought there was a nut on the bottom of the kingpin.If there is,you should be able to unscrew the remaining stud from the axle with that nut.Leave the cotter pin in,but fit the wrench around it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 10:33 pm:

David -- The spindle bolt is threaded into the bottom of the axle, so if it's broken the top part of it should come right out. The bottom of the bolt must be unscrewed from the top. You can try a left-handed drill bit from the top, or a right-handed drill bit from the bottom. Drill one hole an inch or so into the bolt, then drill it with another bit slightly larger. That usually will cause the bit to bind up in the almost-big-enough hole, and tend to turn the bolt. If it's really stuck, you might need to heat the bottom part of the axle to break the bolt free. Good luck! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 10:35 pm:

p.s. -- Try Mack's idea first. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 10:46 pm:

If the bit sticking out with the nut on it can be loosened cut a slot in the projecting end of the bolt (with the nut off) and use a thin blade screw driver to crank it out of the threads then push it up through the hole. You just might get it out. Especially if the screw driver shaft is long enough and the blade fit is tight in the slot so you don't lose it in the hole. You should be able to aim it past the two bushing's and out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 10:46 pm:

Did the spindle bolt break in service? Has that happened to anybody else?

I was warned 15 years ago that the half-inch kingpins were too small for front brakes...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 11:20 pm:

Guys it took a fair amount off torque to twist off the top of the bolt. The bolt shank that is still in the spindle is not going to come out without a realistic game plan. It took a 24 inch cheater bar and a map gas torch to twist the head off the bolt.
spindle


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 11:26 pm:

David,

With it stuck that much, I think drilling it out might be the only option.....

If it was me, I would pull the axle, flip it over and then work on it that way. Maybe grind the bolt flush, then drill it out using a slightly smaller bit so the threads don't get damaged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 11:31 pm:

Easy, take a hack saw, and cut center of either bushing thrust, or both, and remove the spindle, and then remove the rest. Nothing to it. Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 11:37 pm:

Herm, I think you have the answer I was looking for. I think that would be the least amount of work. Its going to have to be re-bushed anyway.
Thanks for the great idea.
Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:36 am:

If you cut the kingpin just above the threaded area, you could then weld a nut on the threaded bit that extends out the bottom, and then screw it down and out, provided that the threads extend above where you have cut it. The heating of the welding process will help free the stuck bolt.
Best
Gus
Ps I think it is the OD paint that caused it to stick:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 01:42 am:

The threads generally end below the top edge of the bottom portion of the axle (you probably cannot run that end of the kingpin on through). Cut through at about the top of the visible part of the lower bushing. That should leave about an eighth inch of straight kingpin above the lower portion of the axle. That should be enough to weld a nut onto the kingpin and wrench it out (up, the normal way).
Right now, I am having the problem of one broke off on the bottom. It won't go down or up. Nothing to weld onto. I've tried several of the tricks I know. Looks like it is going to be "drill and re-tap" from the bottom.
Looks like the ambulance?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 03:41 am:

Umm... i bought new bolts and they were hardened to some extreme point if they are all hardened like that then cutting them with a hacksaw would be impossible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 04:58 am:

If they are too hard to cut with a hacksaw, use a cut off wheel in a hand grinder. It will be easier anyway. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:04 pm:

I think some of the bolts have been hardened to an extreme. I broke the top off of a king pin by going over a rough cattle guard at speed (all the other cattle guards were just decent bumps, this one was a SERIOUS bump). The axle survived just fine and one of the tour organizers came up with a replacement king pin for me (Thanks Dave Huson) and things were good again. I still think that bolt was hardened to the pint of being brittle. Admittedly, I did abuse it but I was surprised that it broke like that.

It was easy to remove the rest, just removed the cotter key and nut, reversed the nut and threaded it on just enough so I could put the cotter key back in and used a wrench to back the pin out far enough to grab the top with a vise grip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:26 pm:

If the broken part is still too tight to get of by using Walt method, you could weld a flat washer to the top of the bolt, use a washer is smaller then the diameter of the bolt, once the washer is welded completely to the bolt, then weld a large nut to the washer, this gives you good purchase to screw the bolt out, and it gives the benefit of heat on the bolt to break it free.
Best
Gus
PS Hey Dave, I think your T is a lemon, but I will buy it form you so you do not have to deal with this problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 05:46 pm:

Thanks for all the great ideas guys...except for you Gus. No wonder both of your machines are behind the barn..... chicken coups.
Well...maybe your washer idea was kinda good.
Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:20 pm:

Here is the update -
Surgical cutting with a 4 inch grinder equipped with a cutting wheel. I split that bushing flange right in half and cut through the spindle bolt like butter. I wiggled the spindle and it came right out. Later this week I will try to extract the threaded portion of the spindle bolt out of the front axle.
The rest of the bolt came right out of the spindle with a drift and a hammer.
Dave
1
2
3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:15 pm:

Hey David,
You have enough bolt sticking up to use a washer that is the same size as the bolt, I have welded nuts to bolts before, using a nut that fits over the bolt and then filling the center of the nut with weld, attaching it to the bolt to remove with very good luck, a friend just told me of the washer idea, he says it works better as you can get a better bond with the washer and then have more space to get a good weld between the nut and washer. I would still take the T off your hands though, even after you screw it up using my idea:-)
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Stinchcomb on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:51 pm:

Great thread. I'm trying to save an old T axle that was once my Dad's trailer. The spindle bolt is frozen inside the spindle but the bolt turns (after a lot of heat) in the top and bottom :-( of the axle. I may try more heat to get the spindle bolt out of the spindle along with a press but if that doesn't work it looks like I'll be cutting the bolt as David did. Then there is the task of repairing the threads at the bottom.

Cheers
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 07:52 pm:

Ya' done good, David. I don't see any threads above the bottom yoke of the axle, so you'll need to unscrew it upward. You probably can do that with some vise-grips; it may require some heat on the axle if it's stuck. After you get it to the point where you can't grip it from below, you can grip it above. The axle threads should be OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 07:55 pm:

BTW, Herm's idea was a good one, obviously. I don't think this is his first rodeo. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:03 pm:

I fought the bolt and..... I won! We battled for about 2 hours, I welded on washers and nuts and then I would torque them off. Then I heated the bolt with a torch until cherry red. I clobbered it with a hammer....squirted it with lube...welded another washer and nut on it (4th time). Sheared the welded nut again but the washer stayed on...just about to give up when I noticed a slight back and forth wiggle in the bolt while I was tourqing on the washer with the largest set of channel locks you have ever seen. Squirted more lube and switched over to vice grips. Working the wiggle into a 1/8 turn back and forth, the 1/4 turn back and forth...more lube...the wiggle got to be a full turn ...then we were on our way. I worked the bolt all the way out, then I ran a tap through the hole to clean it all out. I'm glad that exercise is over. Now I have to re-bush my spindle and put it all back together.
Cheers Dave
1
2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Stinchcomb, Trumbull, CT on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:49 pm:

David - I did as you and cut into the lower bushing and was able to remove the spindle. My lower bolt was loose in the threads which concerned me but it turns out the bolt threads took most of the rust issues. The threads in the lower axle (finger?) look 90% good. At first I thought the top hole was missing threads but looking around here it turns out the top 1/3 (5/16" if I remember) are supposed threadless.

BTW, that broken stud/bolt extraction method I hear works good for broken head bolts too.

Cheers
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:56 pm:

Hey David,
That really sucks, I was hoping that you would get frustrated and want to get rid of that lemon, The heat from the welding has a lot to do with the success of this method.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 11:02 pm:

I was beginning to question if any heat at all had an effect. I like to think it was my brute strength and cunning. Your idea didn't work 3 and a half times Gus!!!! That washer pulled through ok though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 11:07 pm:

Rich,the threads in the axle can be repaired.I had 1 done.
A machinest needs to set it up in a bridge port.
My memory is not good,I may miss a step.
But I remember him setting mine up in a bridge port.He then used a bit of some kind to enlarge the hole a bit.He measured it,and made a press in bushing.Pressed it in.
Then he flipped the axle and set it up so he could use the top hole as a guide and got the angle right for the threads.My memory is fuzzy now but somehow he then threaded the bushing.It works fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Stinchcomb, Trumbull, CT on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 11:18 pm:

Thanks Mack. Somewhere in the forum is a post with a picture of the drilling being performed. If I remember correctly, the bottom of the axle needs to sit flat on the Bridgeport. That will take some time since the other spindle is stuck as well as the perches. I must like a challenge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David ONeal on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 10:05 pm:

Installed new spindle bushings and new kingpin.
Re-assemble everything and took the old Tin Lizzy for a test ride around the hood. She is all fixed and ready for the 2012 Memorial Day display. That was a fun little project.
fixed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 11:35 pm:

David,
Photos like that are a very dangerous thing for me;)

Every photo inches me forward to build a ambulance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, May 27, 2012 - 04:15 am:

Bravo!


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration