Timer question - what is best (from vendors)

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Timer question - what is best (from vendors)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 08:20 am:

Ok, stupid question, and probably been answered many times before, what timer would you recommend (on our 1913)?

I've been a bad caretaker, and our Ford roller timer is worn out.

I need to order one today, getting ready for the June Nebraska tour.

Thanks,

Rob

From my iPad that can't post pics


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Mullis on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 08:49 am:

Everybody seams to have a preference. I tried everything.
Roller timers take a fare amount of maintenance but are ok (my opinion).
I stumbled across a "New Day" timer in a box of parts and ordered a brush for it through one of the venders. Following the advice from this forum, I slightly modified the brush and installed a new type cam seal. It has given me the most trouble free service of anything else. Clean it out every once in a while and all is well. I clean out the timer case and use Brasso to remove the deposits (from the brush) in the inside timer face.

Avoid the newer New Day timers as I am told that the brush soon wears down into the plastic case. You can spot the newer New Days by a large "S" that is molded into the case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 08:52 am:

Anderson


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:03 am:

Rob Heyen:

I like Andersons and Original New Days. I would never use a roller type. I have been told and have read over and over that repro New Days are soft and soon wear between contact points. I always use original New Days. If you have used new days you have to get a rubber disk that fits the new day and use sand paper on the disk to smooth them flat.

High Point

Don't let anyone tell you that Anderson Timers wear. You can use them for thousands and thousands of miles. You can get your Anderson Timers direct from Ford and Moore 509-535-7789. There has to be a reason that 95 percent of the Montana 500 racers use Andersons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:15 am:

Everything wears. I've got a worn out Anderson at the house, if I need to post pictures. Seems like someone posted pics not that long ago of a worn Anderson. I'm not saying they don't last, but they will wear. I'm on my second one. The first, I only put a little grease in like the instructions say. The second is packed half full. I'll see if it seems to last any longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:36 am:

My Anderson is approaching 7 years and never had any grease. I can only guess how many thousands of miles so far. When I bought it Frank said if you want to grease it put in a dab of vaseline if not that's ok too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:42 am:

Anderson, Anco, AD-VER-TI-ZER... what ever has tabs.

You can get a new one or send an old original one off to the boys in Spokane and have them calibrate it. Replacement flappers , pins and the special keepers are all available.

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:03 am:

Rob,

I would use an original 1913 style roller timer. Chaffins has them in stock.

Or if you want a perfect original 1920 - 27 style stamped steel roller timer send me an email. I buy them at places like Chickasha for $5 or less, then clean them, replace any defective hardware and resell for an obscene profit.

I used to run the Anco timers but quit after several incidents where the spark lever gets pulled down to full advance when the engine is shut off. On a car that is crank started every time this is very unsafe. Also the roller timer gives more accurate timing, particularly at low - mid range speeds which gives smoother performance.

http://www.chaffinsgarage.com/l-z/timer.htm
P/N 3175A


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:07 am:

Thanks guys.

I've ordered an Anderson and will keep a roller timer on hand for backup. The "new" roller timer I have been using is unbelievably worn down. However, living by the cliche "if it ain't broke, don't look at it", it's not surprising. :-(

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:38 am:

Rob -- I think you'll be happy with your new Anderson timer. Be aware that the length of the timer rod will need to be changed from the roller timer length. Do the setup as described in the instructions and it'll work fine. You might want to use a new timer rod and adjust the length accordingly, so you can keep your current one with the backup timer. That way, you won't have to readjust the rod length if you change back to the other type timer. The problem Royce mentioned regarding the timing lever movement happens when the timer rod length is incorrect, causing the engine to backfire. (BTDT)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Hutchinson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:31 am:

I think the Anderson Timer is absolutely the best! I am a little biased I suppose. :-) I will admit that they do eventually wear out. If you should have a worn timer we will happily rebuild it for you. Any questions contact me thru a PM or tiptoptimers.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:52 am:

Actually Mike the inherent Anco timer problem I mentioned happens no matter what you do. It happens when the engine is turned off. Not beciuse of any backfire.

When the engine is turned off (or cranked by hand if it does not start), this thing happens. The engine comes up on compression stroke but does not have enough inertia to make the piston go all the way up. Then it rotates backwards, and the Anco timer spring makes the flapper grab the timer contact, pulling the spark to full advance.

Be ready for it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Hutchinson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:14 pm:

Sorry, I should have said "simply the best" my oh my what was I thinking?
I also feel we have made great strides in correcting the issue Royce is talking about but, I agree it is always best to be ready for anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 01:29 pm:

You will like the Anderson. If you drive like I do maybe without enough grease or lube on the contacts sooner or later it will wear out as well being metal to metal. Yes, there are some issues like centering and roll back to watch for when cranking. But I wore out two and really liked them.

Since we're recommending timers, I nearly hate to say the WORD but so far I love my E Timer!

Yup, it cost a lot more than a few Andersons but it won't wear out and seems to be absolutely trouble free. Looks Original to boot!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 01:32 pm:

More than a few Andersons or Benjamins?:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 01:50 pm:

The absolute best timer to use is the one you choose to use and enjoy using in your car IMO.

Standard disclaimers apply: Your mileage may vary; Past performance is no guarantee of future results, proper maintenance required*.

*Excludes Maintenance free, non-contact timers immune to electrical contact ware, contact bounce, CAM centering, end play and RPM limitations.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Thompson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

Gene, Was it much work installing the e-timer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 03:58 pm:

Bill, The install OR removal of the ETimer is very nearly the same as any other timer. Mike has a very simple and detailed set of instructions with each. Many tasks listed are the same as you should do when replacing any timer such as checking position of TDC and the proper location of the spark lever.

You could check out his website at www.modeltetimer.com if you want more detailed info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 04:02 pm:

Is there a lifetime guarantee on the E-timer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:01 pm:

Two New Day timers I had both burned out between the contacts and caused a high speed miss under load, ie, when climbing, just when you need it to perform at its best. Both were low mileage failures. I now have a roller fitted and no longer have to worry when approaching the hill to home. I would't give you two bob for the New Days.

Peter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hughes, Raymond, NE on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:28 pm:

Bill,

I just installed an E-timer last weekend, and it went very smoothly. Like Gene just said it is not much different than any other timer install other than needing to put jumper wires on the coils to bypass the points. I toured about 110 miles the day after installing it and am very happy with the performance.

Rob,

Since you tend to be somewhat lax on the maintenance, the E-timer would certainly be an option to consider as it requires essentially no maintenance. Yes, it is a bit costly, but it is maintenance free.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:41 am:

Rob, you can have the best of both worlds. I had Frank Fenton put the Anderson innards in an original aluminum case. It looks right on my '14 and it works just like any Anderson. This year at Chickasha, Frank reported that Ford & More offers the same rebuilding service.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 06:49 am:

Rob:

Gotta sit in the corner for not following Royce's greasing instructions on that original Ford commutator. (:.}) Another one hits the dust .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fenton on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 10:18 am:

I installed an old, New Day timer which I had re-surfaced on my lathe, lightly greased it and it seemed to function quite well for about 150 Km. The engine began running erratically. With the key on battery I turned the crank very slowly and noticed very little space between the grounding (sparking) of the coils. Removed the timer and found about 5/16" of carbon tail on each of the brass/bronze? inserts. Took the New Day off for the last time and re-installed the Anderson packed with grease for a change. I had noticed previously that the contact areas on both the flapper and the four grounding fingers look as if they had been roughened by a coarse file.I believe this roughness is caused from the electrical grounding. (sparking) Does anyone run the Anderson timer and have the contacts remain smooth? I run on magneto. John.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 10:41 am:

John

The Anderson flapper will wear over time, but a long time. The contacts are hardened steel, so they take a lickin and keep on clikin the coils :-)

Here is the wear after about 4k miles and no upkeep, disclaimer is the spring in the flapper was the 'high speed' version for the Montana racers to keep the flapper from floating, the tough spring did cause most of the wear you see, and there was no lube either.



The above wear didn't seem to affect performance at all..

But went on and changed it out to a 'rebuilt' ANCO brand case and new innards by TipTop Timers. I do use a big dab of the high pressure grease now, and do plan to look at the timer at least each 6 mo. maybe :-) They are so carefree you forget to!



Love those flapper timers, they are just right from my flapper-era flivvers :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 10:42 am:

John, I am facing my first issues in 3-4 years with my Anderson. I drive 1500-2000 miles each season. I am going to pull the timer off, clean it, and then try Royce's plan and fill it with red grease. Other than this time, I have had no problems with the Anderson. I am a newbie still, so I can't give much advise!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 05:38 pm:

Doug, (Glow in the Dark)??

Since no one guarantees what Mikes lifetime is I guess I'd have to say "No". From my experience and what I've heard from others about Mike Kossor is that no one has a better customer service. He takes a personal interest in every timer that he sends out.

I know that's saying a lot because most all of the T vendors do a remarkable job of handling complaints.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 07:44 pm:

John,

I wonder if the carbon tracking in your New Day may have been caused by the grease. I have always heard to run them dry. I have one but only have a repro brush for it. The repro brush quality really sucked. That's when I moved to an Anderson in my truck. Running a Ford roller timer in the Touring.

All,

I was thinking the E-Timer warranty was 1 year, but I am not sure. I went to the website, but it wasn't working quite right for me, so I wasn't able to find it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

G'day,

I have two New Day Timers that both died in short order with bad erosion at the brush departure edge of the contact. Heavy carbon tracking resulted. These were run dry as required.

Peter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 10:26 pm:

Interesting. Oh well, so much for my theory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 10:32 pm:

Rob - You will like the Anderson, I have never had a problem with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 11:00 pm:

Gene, "glow in the dark" refers to the nuke plant in our backyard. Local joke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 12:30 am:

One fun part of the Anco type is having an original rebuilt. They work very well for me and the current product is the best yet due to the extra accuracy obtained in new and rebuilt units. Tip Top uses a special machine they developed to perfectly match the contacting points for very accurate/consistant timing. They did a tune up on a very used one for me and found a timing issue on one of the four contacts that was identified with their tester. The rebuilt one is now under the seat as a spare and the new one is on Lizzy and running better than ever.

The wear on an old Anco type unit just does not seem to degrade the performance like a worn roller timer does.

I ran the old one for three seasons with little grease at the start, and only one cleaning near the end.

My experiment with the new one is to use a goodly dallop of vaseline in the unit and will check it several times each season to see what is wearing. May try several grease types/amounts over time. Only way I can figure to find the optimal level of greasing and care that mine will require.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 12:49 am:

Hal, Glen Chaffin told me about the sorry New Day brushes currently available. He said the solution is to file a generator brush to fit in the holder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 09:28 am:

I may do that so I will have a spare timer. Or maybe hit Royce up for one of his rebuilt roller timers. I turned down the one on the Touring, but that was at my last job and I don't have access to that lathe anymore. I can't get one to chuck in my little lathe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Victoria Australia on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 07:48 pm:

Can an Anderson be pulled down and fitted into a cast alumin timer casing C 1913 , still looking orig from otside, but with the reliable anderson "flapper" inside ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood, IL on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 08:19 pm:

Hal, there is a thread here where they used a block of wood and a dremel to reface the roller timer. A search should find it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 10:54 pm:

David D. -- You can send your aluminum timer to Ford-n-More in Spokane, WA to have it fitted with new Anderson innards. I had Frank Fenton do one for me before he sold the business to F-n-M. It works great!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood, IL on Sunday, May 27, 2012 - 12:27 am:

Who uses the high speed spring in the Anderson and do you notice a difference? What does it cost to get it calibrated?


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