OT Carbon on number three

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT Carbon on number three
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 03:58 pm:

I am working on another 28 Chevy but it keeps missing. To date I have done a valve job, new plug wires, new plugs, new distributor head, rotor. It starts but when i checked the number 3 plug it is fouled. I have check my valve settings and right now I am at 10 thousandths. Number one and two plugs are clean. What am I missing???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 04:58 pm:

Piston rings? Did you measure and compare compression between cylinders? If compression in the suspect cylinder increases significantly when you drip some oil in there through the spark plug hole, then the problem lies in that piston / piston rings or cylinder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 05:52 pm:

Nope...didn't do that but will...That's for the heads up Roger...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:43 pm:

Changed out the condenser, checked for compression with my gauge and all is good. Excellent compression. Recheck all the valve clearances and all hold. I was thinking maybe compression springs but if compression is good then that seems to eliminate that. Still misfiring on number three with carbon on the plug. I am thinking it could be the oil rings that are stuck. thoughts appreciated..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Frost Pierce on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:49 pm:

It could be a bad spark plug wire .I had 2 on my RV


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:58 pm:

Try swaping plugs and see if it moves with that plug. It could be firing inside the plug under compression rather than at the tip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 02:23 pm:

Charles,

This really sounds like a spark problem to me. Are you getting a good spark on #3 when you remove the plug wire and hold it close to the block? When you say the #3 plug is fouled, is it wet with gasoline, or oil? (the nose will tell you). After cleaning plug#3 does it fire at all on that cylinder? If so, are you getting large amounts of blue smoke when #3 does fire? Have you swapped plugs to see if it's a bad plug?

Have you checked the runout on the distributor shaft? Are your points opening when #3 is on TDC (lobes ok)? I am assuming you have checked the dist. cap for carbon tracking.

Trouble shooting a problem like this one requires that you fully eliminate each system as a cause, one step at a time before you go on to the next.

I'm sorry there are more questions than answers here, but the systematic approach is usually better than jumping at random conclusions. Best of luck here... You WILL SOLVE THIS!

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 02:41 pm:

John have new wires and yes did replace the plug with a new one. The foul on the plug is carbon and not wet with gasoline. I do get large amounts of blue smoke out the tail pipe when it does fire. Have good spark on number three when ground to the block. Lobes on distributor are good as is the distributor cap, a new one. New rotor. What baffles me is that I have been doing stuff for over thirty years and can't for the life of me figure this one out as it only affects the number three piston. I also have new plug wires on this jewel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 03:12 pm:

If you have oil in that one cylinder it can only be rings causing that much oil unless you poured a bunch in there earlier and it is not yet burnned off.

If there was that much in there I would flush it out with a dixie cup of gas then put a fresh plug in and give that a shot.

Confusing though you say it is fouled with Carbon ? That would be old burrned oil. Did you mean to say oil fouled ?

J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 03:25 pm:

Hey Jerry...that's my thinking. I may have a stuck ring. Will try the gas method. When I say fouled, it is black carbon, soot...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 03:30 pm:

Letting the gas sit on the top of the piston might free up the ring as it seeps past.

Hoping the best for you..

J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

Maybe you have a valve guide problem: Too much clearance. There used to be two patches for this, one was extender for the plug to move it out a bit so it would not be fouled. The other was a rubber deflector you put on the valve stem to deflect oil away from the stem. There may be others. This engine is manually oiled from some type of wick system, I believe.

I don't know if valve guides are replaceable or if knurling would work on this engine.

Could it be the way your are manually oiling, this particular cylinder is getting flooded with oil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 03:37 pm:

One more thought, where are the oil drains and are they clear and draining oil into the crankcase.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 04:50 pm:

Ted you may be on to something there. I recall those patches and still have a few of them in the shop. Oil drains are away from the valves. It has an oil pump system that is actuated by the distributor..Let me try the guide patch and let you know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 05:40 pm:

Charles,

I think the oil pump supplies oil to the mains and splash troughs for the rods. The valves have a felt which is manually supplied with oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 05:50 pm:

Right


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 05:53 pm:

4 cyl chev heads love to crack and not always into an water jacket, they crack through to ports pulling oil into inlet, the 28 twin port exhaust was supposed to stop this, but?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 05:59 pm:

Charles,

How do the valve guides get oiled, especially the intake on#3? Does #3 seem to have more oil pooled around it than the other valves? I also recall your engine uses a wick to lube the valve stem.

I had an old tractor do this once... it turned out to be a cracked rocker arm flooding oil onto one valve. Oil dripped through the rocker shaft onto a wick on that engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 07:49 am:

John. there is a reservoir that holds the oil on the top of the engine head with felt, heavily soaked in oil that covers the rocker arm assemblies. What I am thinking is what Ted mentioned. it could be after all the years that the valve guides are worn thus the need for the caps. Will work on it this morning and keep you posted. Scheduled to be around 95 degrees today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 05:38 pm:

To give you an update. I pulled the head this morning and the number 5 valve was completely covered in carbon. This is a bran new valve. On closer inspection the hole that is the valve guide was out of round allowing too much play in the valve and not allowing the valve to seat properly. This was an exhaust valve. So...I cleaned up the head and took it to my local machine shop to see if they could place some inserts for valve guides and they told me it would be ready next week. This should do the trick. Thanks to everybody on the forum for all your help. Will keep you posted...


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