Oil Screen-Affects oil flow to the bands

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Oil Screen-Affects oil flow to the bands
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:09 pm:

I dont have an oil screen and i have contemplated installing one many times but i cant help but believe it restricts oil flow over the drums and bands.
Is it enough to affect drum temp i dont know but it cant have zero significance.

Whats wrong with changing the oil regularly and maybe dropping in a screen periodically for a few easy miles to collect any residual junk then remove it for the majority of the time? Just an observation for discussion.

Vince in Illinois


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

There are holes in the screen over the bands. I have had oil screens on mine and don't think it causes any problem to the drums. It will catch some of the band lint or other particles which get into the oil. It won't catch all of it, and the oil still needs regular changing. It is better to catch some debris than none at all.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 09:45 pm:

I've had the experience where the screen was causing an oil leak at the rear of the hogshead around the end-cap/fourth main. I don't know if the screen deflects more oil to a specific area at the rear of the hogshead or if it causes the oil to dam-up back there.

This same problem been noted on the forum over the years by others who have installed a transmission screen.

I removed the screen and the problem immediately went away. I should note that the motor is a fairly fresh rebuild including a new-old-stock transmission backing plate/tailshaft and a new-old-stock babbitt end-cap/fourth main.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:20 pm:

Since i dont have a screen i dont know specifics but if the oil passes through the screen before it gets to the bands there is a restriction of flow-especially as the screen gets dirty. Even with a bypass the oil is still not being directed in the location and quantity as designed by ford, correct?

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:36 pm:

Needless worry, the oil screen is a great tool, just use it right.

I run them in every T, and change the oil as recommended every 750 miles (1922 Service Manual). Oil change is most likely each 1000 miles or summer season for sure. It's black by then from burnt gas and low compression of the T.

And I clean the oil screen at each oil change, or look at it when bands need adjusting, which ever comes first.


Great gobs of oil fall and flow over the bands from the tapered floor of the oil screen, only partial down flow goes into the screen, most oil goes over the triple gears and bands/linings. But over miles and miles, enough oil passes thru and is 'screened' to pick up muck, strings of linings, or sometimes ....metal things that should not be revolving with the triple gears :-)



or fluff stuff from those gummy Scandinavian linings, yuck!



the oil screen is the best thing you can do for the oil system, except for putting in new fresh oil..the screen keeps tabs for you on what is happening in the bowls below the hogshead :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:45 pm:

The biggest problem I had with mine is the little magnetic fibers the magnet seems to collect. Other than that, it was ok.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 10:55 pm:

I like the little magnetic filings that the magnet catches... they're better off on in the transmission screen than flaoting around in your bearings!

Use RTV silicone to fit one gasket to the bottom of the door, and the other gasket to the bottom of the screen, then grease or oil the top of the trans cover and the top of the screen. When screwed together you get a great seal that will easily come off where the oil acts as a release agent.

best accessory ever

cheers

Anthony


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:57 pm:

I am still not convinced these screens don't have a down side to them.

It is a given they have an up side because of the harmful debris they catch...but i have seen little to no forum discussion regarding possible collateral concerns such as the oil flow direction or cooling of the drums.

Has anyone ever correlated drum cracking to the regular use of a screen, or a dirty screen?

There has been a lot of data posted regarding timers and oil type and grease and thermostats and coils and xing rods...but nothing but acceptance of an aftermarket item that could materially affect major oil flow to a critical part of the car.

Tongue and cheek, but not entirely, maybe the lint screens fill up because the screens themselves contribute to early band wear..HA!!??

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 02:26 pm:

A totally stock engine gets limited splash and drip of oil off the top cover to drop onto the top of the drums and bands.
The oil screens catch oil up closer to the flywheel which is where most of the oil is flying around. They then funnel it toward the back where holes allow that oil to drip through onto the drums and bands. If the screen plugs up completely with debris, you are back to near where you began. Plus that much debris has been caught and isn't plugging up somewhere else. If the screen isn't completely plugged up, it should drop more oil onto the drums and bands than a stock engine gets. It sounds like a win-win to me.
And I am the guy that often argues the downside of things other people don't think of. The downside I have seen, is that if you are not careful about how and where you seal the gaskets, these can result in becoming a funnel to a messy oil leak.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 02:34 pm:

Vince

It's your T so do what you think best.

Ford did address somewhat the issue of slinging more oil on the linings and triple gears



You can see diverting oil splash makes sense to Ford.

So others followed suit with deflectors and added outside oil lines too or combos off that theme.

That single oil line in the Ford is gone once it get clogged with old oil or debris from linings. The modern oil screen will prevent that!










Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 06:13 pm:

It would be great to be able to actually see the oil flow with and without a screen.

I had the trans access door open one time and hit the starter button.

It was incredible how much oil sloshed over the bands. Almost like someone turned on a hose.

It just appears as though the screen would reduce that by a large percentage.

It is very tempting to install one though when you see the junk some here have caught in their screens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 06:58 pm:

Here's an example of why we can assume the oil screen does not affect band lining life:
Since acquiring my car almost ten years ago, it has always run with an oil screen, and cotton linings.
The car has done about 22,000km. I live in a hilly area, drive the car often, and fast. In those 22,000km I have replaced the cotton brake lining once, and the cotton low band lining only once.

If the oil screen was a problem I wouldn't be getting that kind of life out of the linings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 08:07 pm:

What does Dean Yoder have to say?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 08:26 pm:

I was also interested on finding out if the screen gets in the way of oil flow. Good post Vince!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 09:04 pm:

Take a piece of plexiglass and cut to the shape of the hogshead door then watch and see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 11:28 am:

Patrick,
I thought of that, but with the screen in place you would not be able to see beneath it.

Thanks James. There are a lot of things we just assume are 100% beneficial without taking a closer look.

If i get a screen, i think i will install temporarily once in a while to do a quick filter, then remove for any long hard runs.

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 07:21 pm:

Remember also the Model N uses the same kind of transmission, but it's open and the drums and bands are not immersed in oil like the T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 08:33 am:

I added a screen and magnet to my 1919 during an oil change-
The first time I checked it there were some small metal particles on the magnet and a bunch of band debris.
The next time there were no metal particles and less band stuff.
Now there is only a little band droppings. :-)

I'm happy that I decided to use it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 09:48 am:

The very first prototype T engines had a oil pipe for oiling the fourth main inside the trans - it was discontinued before production since it caused too much oil leakage out the rear. The oil deflecting rib in the hogshead wasn't added until late in 1924 model year, still few of the earlier T's starve for oil in the rear of the trans. Perhaps if a car is backed up a long steep hill?

I think on the contrary that the accessory oil screen helps deflect more oil to the clutch area than would have landed there without the screen - but I can't prove that. I just think that most oil splashes just a short distance from the flywheel, so anything that collects some oil and distributes it further back will help - as long as it isn't distributed all the way back to the fourth main. So many have used these screens without apparent troubles so I think it's safe to say they're more of a help than a problem for the engine.
Your mileage may vary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:16 am:

It does not take much band material to stop up the inside oiler or a 1/4" outside oil line. Running with an oil screen may be the best thing you can do in helping keep your oil lines flowing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 11:40 am:

I have taken apart 2 engines that were full of band fibers and had oil screens. Nether of them had the oil tube blocked.
I put my screen back in but even with a fairly tight 4th main there is still a good amount of oil loss through it because of the oil being fed right over it. I did turn the oil hole to the side and that may have helped some.
I do think the screen is a good idea but that being said, maybe a redesign with a shield over the 4th main might be a good idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 04:38 pm:

Vince

Just to help you decide to perhaps use a oil screen (Disclaimer! I don't get any royalties on oil screens :-) )

I just made this video of the oil splash with the screen in place. It's very short, but I think shows the design feature of the oil screen with that large down plate and only a portion of the lower end over the clutch spring that is screened with a modest size mesh to catch bad stuff.

You Tube: Oil Screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k04SQCpuxWw

The engine was fired up on starter, and you can see the slow roll of oil, as I speeded up the motor to idle, the roll slowed even more, allowing the mesh screen to be in constant view, i.e. most of the oil as the engine speeded up was being thrown over the flywheel ring gear and magnets, and then diverted by the big slanting down plate that is under that oil screen. At higher speeds, that oil will really sling around the hogshead, [didn't try that as my hand was holding the picture glass sheet over the opening and the other hand with the digital camera], I sure bet that most of the oil is diverted directly to the bands and linings, and the bit of screen mesh on the lower part of the oil screen is skimming and cleaning the minor overflow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:21 pm:

Here's a unit that directs oil in the tranny without screens.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/115983.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 06:22 pm:

Dan,

Wow - great video but it looks to me like the majority of the oil flows past the perforations over the bands, and into the screen.

It does leave the screen about as fast as it enters it, but i still think the bands could be starved of oil..especially when climbing a big hill.

Wish i could see under the screen. Thanks Dan for posting the video.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 06:45 pm:

When I clean out my screen, I get the typical fuzz from the band linings, but I also get some grit...almost like tiny pieces of gravel. It's hard little black pieces of....something? Anyone else have a similar experience or know what it could be?

Cool vid!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 08:10 pm:

Vince

You are missing the main point of the flow of oil with the screen in place.

View that video again please.

"looks to me like the majority of the oil flows past the perforations over the bands, and into the screen"

In the splash system, the majority of oil is carried by those large magnet ends and the flywheel/ring gear directly at the top of the hogshead. That is why the left side hogshead mounted oil pickups, the scoop type that mount over a hole drilled in the left top of the flywheel can throw a gallon of oil a minute to the front of the engine.

The oil is then dropped/carried by gravity and the spinning flywheel and transmission to the bottom of the crankcase sump and then the process starts again.

In the beginning part of my video, the oil screen plate grabs only a tiny bit of that oil, oil pours over at the very slow flow at cranking speeds over the screen section at the base of the oil screen..but it is gone when the motor speeds up.

That oil does not drain thru it in vast quantity, only a fraction,....on the contrary, as you watch the video you can see the slinging at speed of the oil, as the motor idles up faster, is splashing at the glass plate at the top}, oil is now diverted by the plate under the screen to the bands, and not directly to the screen section. But most of that oil is still being thrown up against the hogshead and then falling back into the sump.


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