Ignition Switch Gone Bad?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Ignition Switch Gone Bad?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:07 pm:

Last evening I was chasing the lunar/solar eclipse in my '24 Touring, attempting to get a good view and take a few photos. As it began to get dark I turned the lights on to dim and the engine died. I moved the switch back and forth over to bright and back to dim, turned the key ignition switch to off and on a few times and then attempted to start it again. It started.

I drove home with light switch off as there was still a little daylight left and a short drive home.

When I got home I turned the light switch to dim and the engine died. It' obvious that their is some short in the switch. With the key ignition off, the headlights do not come on now. I checked the headlight lamps and they don't look burned out. I started the car again and as soon as I turned the dim light switch to dim it killed the engine.

I've taken the ignition switch apart to see how it was assembled and how it works. Do these ignition switches go bad?

I've taken some photos for you to see. One small area looks as if it got hot.

Any advice is appreciated.

Orlando



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:20 pm:

I had the same problem with my '20 coupe.
It was loose connections on the terminal block.
It would run perfectly until I turned on the lights.
Poor connections don't handle juice the way they should....... ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:25 pm:

Are you running off the mag? Or do you have a distributor or something like that that runs off of the battery? If you are running on mag and the engine dies when you turn the headlights on, then the issue is almost certainly in the ignition switch.

If you're running an ignition system that runs off of the battery, it's possible that there's a bad connection somewhere and when you turn on the headlights, the extra load causes the voltage to drop too much and kills your ignition. I almost had this problem. My car has no mag, and for a while, the engine would start running rough if you turned the headlights on. Of course, the problem could still be in your switch!

FIrst off, I would say that the switch contacts do look a little tired, but not too bad. I would say that you should polish all of the brass contacts with some 600 or finer grit sandpaper. Then, bend the brass rotors, or whatever you want to call them, out a bit so they put more pressure on the back side of the switch. Also, make sure that the key and headlight switches move independently of one another. Doing all of these things brought my ignition switch back to life!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:31 pm:

The car runs on distributor, no mag. Craig, Cameron, are you saying there may be a loose connection somewhere, not necessarily at the switch? All the wires are tight at the switch. The key switch seems to move independently from the light switch.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:39 pm:

Yup Orlando.
While the engine is running with the lights on, if it WILL run with them on, wiggle around all the connections you can get at.
Don't overlook the supply wire from the starter switch.
I bet you'll find something, somewhere, is loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:41 pm:

That's it exactly. If you have a voltmeter, I would say start the engine (don't turn on your headlights), check the voltage at the battery, and then check the voltage going into the distributor. The readings should be with about 1/2 a volt. If the voltage at the distributor is substantially lower, then you at least know that you have a bad connection somewhere. If you REALLY want to be fancy, watch that voltage at the distributor and then turn the headlights on. Again, if the two readings are substantially different from one another, that's a telltale sign of a bad connection!

Also, check all the wires at the terminal block in the engine compartment. I've had nothing but problems with those blocks, and wires seem to come loose all the time. I finally ditched the old Ford terminal block for a modern one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:49 pm:

I guess I forgot to include an option if you don't have a voltmeter.

The simplest thing to do is just follow power from the battery. Start at the battery terminals and make sure that they're tight and not corroded, follow the ground cable to the chassis and the positive wire to the starter switch, then the wire going from the starter switch to the terminal block, etc. Just make sure that none of those connections are loose and/or corroded.

Also, give each wire a gentle pull and make sure that it doesn't come out of the terminal end that's crimped on it. I've had times when everything looks good, but the wire was broken or loose in it's terminal end! On the plus side, if the wire comes pulls right out of a terminal end, then you've almost certainly found your problem.

In case you haven't noticed, electrical stuff is my specialty!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 11:59 pm:

Thanks Cameron and Craig. You guys are great. I'll give all the wiring a careful inspection tomorrow.

Cameron, My '24 touring comes from your neck of the woods. I bought it from a nice gentleman near Houston. In fact, I drove through College Station bringing it home.

I'll report back.

Thanks again,

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:53 am:

We gripe about repo stuff that doesn't measure up, but the reproduction switch guts, which you appear to have, are better than the originals, which were pressed cardboard. I agree about checking all connections. My touring was running poorly the other day, and it turned out to be due to loose wires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:14 am:

Steve, I bought a repro switch assy 6 years ago and this past winter when I went to install, the holes don't line up correctly. I used one of the three pieces of the new switch and the other two of my old (at least 40 year old) repro switch to make it work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:15 am:

To clarify, the holes I referred to are the connections the switch buttons touch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:30 am:

Orlando, I had the same problem with my 22. I took everything apart cleaned all the connections with a Brillo pad and made sure all the wires were tight. Something was loose or dirty because it's worked ever since. Also since your dealing with the electrical and all, I would put a safety fuse on the starter wire I believe fun projects sells them just a little added security..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 01:53 am:

I've had a wire work loose two or three times on my '25 coupe. It died a time or two when I turned on the lights and once when I honked the horn. It doesn't have to be very loose to lose contact either. When I tightened the screws in the terminal block, none of them moved more than an eighth of a turn. By the way, I have an original terminal block and I had heard that they sometimes do that, otherwise, I probably would have taken the switch apart too. Just a thought Orlando. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 09:53 am:

Orlando, are you using the Pertronix module? if so have your battery checked for available power, i had a similar issue with my 26, when i stepped on the brake the engine would quit, wait a minute and everything was OK, it drove me nuts, i checked every circuit, every connection and finally had the battery checked, it was a year old so i got a replacement free, this was several years ago.Just a thought.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 11:32 am:

Doug, the repro guts I got from Lang's a couple of years ago needed a little work to fit. I asked about this and was told it's because Ford used different suppliers whose parts weren't exactly the same. All I needed to do was use a little grinder to widen a couple of the slots so the tabs would fit. Nothing else was amiss. I notice Orlando's switch is the pin type. I don't know if there's a fit problem with those.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 11:59 am:

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'll begin checking the electrical connections in detail after work today.

Rick, excuse my ignorance but I don't know what a "Pertonix module" is. Can you explain.

I did replace the battery last fall, and had just topped it off with a trickle/maintainer charger, so the battery is fully charged.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:15 pm:

Someone has had your switch apart probably before you got it. Those two rivets holding the body to the switch panel are not correct. Your best bet for now is to get a rebuilt one from Ben Martin. We are making repro switch backs for the pin and tab type switches, but haven't put them on the market yet. If you still can't find anything, I can probably find one around here somewhere you can use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:43 pm:

Orlando, the Pertronix is a Hall effect ignition that replaces the points in the distributor, they work very well but need full power to operate.I have been using mine for eight years and have only the one problem.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:46 pm:

Thanks Larry,

Can you email me Ben Martin's contact information.

I appreciate your offer to help.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 12:49 pm:

Rick, I'm using points. In fact, I just replaced the points and plugs recently. Had it running real good until this issue.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 04:09 pm:

I keep Ben Martin rebuilt switches in stock danuser88@ktis.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kirk Peterson on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 04:30 pm:

Orlando
John has treated me right in all my dealings with him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 04:39 pm:

Thanks John and Kirk. I'll be contacting you John.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug - Braidwood (glow in the dark), IL on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 10:52 pm:

Steve, I too had to open up one leg to fit, but the center piece that the key turns had the brass contacts so far off that they did not touch the contacts that the wires attach to. This is why I had to use different pieces to make it work. Sloppy workmanship seemed to be the cause.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 12:08 am:

Update:

Had a chance this evening to carefully clean all the ignition contacts and check all the wiring throughout the car. I did give a few 1/8 to 1/4 turns on some contacts screws here and there.

As I was re-assembling the ignition switch I saw a small spark come from the "Bat" wire at the ammeter. It was loose! I took it off and cleaned the contact with a little sand paper, put it back on and tightened the nut good.

The car starts, the lights come on! I believe we've solved the problem.

Thanks to all who provided me with help. It was a team effort. You all are great.

Sincerely,

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 12:29 am:

AHA! :-)

Glad you found it!

Exasperating isn't it?........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 01:21 am:

Orlando, one thing that happened recently was no power at the switch or starter. No wires were loose. I hand cranked the T and it started fine..then I shut it down and then started it with the starter just fine..seemed like maybe the mesh of the gears was screwed up and freed up with the hand crank..dont know if its happened to anyone else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 06:44 pm:

I knew it was a bad connection! Congratulations on finding the problem!


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