Do any pictures exist of Edsel's improved Model T?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Do any pictures exist of Edsel's improved Model T?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 09:05 am:

In the '80's docudrama, "Ford, The Man and The Machine", there is scene where Henry Ford returns from a trip and is shown a prototype of an improved Model T that his son Edsel, with the help of some of his engineers, designed and created, in his absence. Supposedly, this prototype included improvements such as a lower, more streamlined body, a brightly painted body color, 4 wheel drum brakes and other improvements so the antiquated Model T would be more competitive with the other auto manufacturers, whose sales were starting to eclipse Ford for the first time, due to their advanced car designs and appearance.

Instead of being proud of his son, Ford was enraged that Edsel would have the audacity to change his Model T and, in front of everyone present, went on a rampage and destroyed Edsel's prototype, humiliating his son and destroying his spirit, in the process.

How accurate is this? When did it happen? Where did it happen and are there any existing photos of Edsel's prototype? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 09:14 am:

The chassis or parts of it may still be preserved..? See this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/127821.html?1267509740
Royce wrote this March 04, 2010 - 01:24 am: "I believe this car has a 6 cylinder engine that was developed while Henry and Clara Ford were on vacation in Europe around 1913.

A prototype touring car was built using the new engine and chassis. The story is that when Henry came back and saw the prototype he took a sledge hammer and started beating the car to pieces as the engineers stood by and suffered silently in shame."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 10:05 am:

If the story is true and it probably is to some extent Ford was a tyrant as many later learned. Ford was not a family oriented guy in real life. Maybe in pictures but that was about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 10:27 am:

From what I've read here, James Couzens is the man who created so much of the good that Henry was recognized for. He went on in his own right to become a Senator.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 10:40 am:

Yeah, Henry did destroy the prototype car. I seem to remember reading in Charles Sorensen's book that Ford methodically ripped the doors and other parts off with his bare hands and then kicked what was left for however long it took to reduce the car to a pile of crumpled junk. For those compelled to stand and watch, that must have felt like an eternity. In the Cliff Robertson TV movie, Ford used a sledgehammer, which, though historically inaccurate, reduced the amount of expensive air-time it took to get the job done.

The intent of a bully is to completely strip his victim of dignity and from all accounts, at this, Mr. Ford was a masterful virtuoso. Being close to him must have been a protracted, living Hell for Edsel, Clara, Evangeline and the love-child she had with Henry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 10:48 am:

I have always wondered about the severity of the story myself. Edsel was but 20 at the reported time and still in college. May be the bosses son, but...my own son at 20 and in college had the summer help offer to be the bilge chip shoveler snipe under the 5 sided machining centers and on the rebuild team for 50 year old machine tools that still held accuracy. Maybe I was too tough :-) but the kid turned out OK and at 35 is already a director for one of the east coast auto groups...

Edsel Dad may have kicked butt on return for a why did you 'play' rather than learn, but pulling the rest of the boys in on it by Edsel would have probably been potentially suicide for their careers too. It's well documented that individual independent strength and individual independent freedom in any line position was not an attribute accepted by Henry. So who knows...

There is only one guy who may know the whole story, a former researcher at BFM as a grad student, the guy who wrote '5 dollar day'. For those who have never read it, the author scored a prize bigger than BFM PR archives...he went and found families of former supervisors and bosses and asked if the family treasures included Dad's day journals...yeah remember them and being taught or cajoled to make one in our generation?

He was able to confirm from key player day books that the Model X engine actually saw the light of day in the design lab, it just never worked and after years of trying was abandoned. (I still want to believe the 'improved car' was supposed to be the Model X, the timeline just all comes together from start to finish, except for having a workable engine. Ford did not have their head in the sand as many believe when Ch**y started their meteoric rise...Fords next generation ideas simply did not work...in spite of Ford PR to the contrary...lol)

Wonder what else those journals might have said from 'those that lived it, daily'


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 06:46 pm:

The eyewitness account of the story is in Philip Van Doren Stern's book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 07:14 pm:

The eyewitness account that Royce refers to is by George Brown who worked in the purchasing office.

Brown's account is the most cited story of that event. You can find it mentioned in many many Ford books. His Reminisces are on file at the Benson Ford Archives if you want more detail.

Henry Ford was more family oriented to his Grandchildren than he was his own son. Maybe he realized the error of his ways. There is however a lot of evidence showing Henry Ford to be a caring father during Edsel's early childhood.

Jim,

You have to realize too the movie "Ford man & machine" was highly dramatized for a mass television audience. While some parts were true, most of it was so convoluted it came out nothing like Robert Lacey's book which the movie was based on. The book isn't a bad read, but here again it was published for mass market.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

here's a clip advertising the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Mo_rUV8Tg

It shows Cliff Robertson's Henry Ford destroying Edsel's prototype.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 08:10 pm:

Years ago, I read in "The Vintage Ford" that Trent Boggess had done research at The Benson Ford Archives and found enough engineering drawings to support the rumor that Ford had indeed planned to produce the car apparently code named "T-X" which was, as some believe, to be the replacement for the Model T.

I believe that he also mentioned that these drawings showed the use of the "X" configuration engine. Actual present-day photos of several different "X" configuration engines that were purchased at auction when Greenfield Village "cleaned out" their "junk" back in the early 80's, have appeared here on this forum.

While we're on the subject of Ford Motor Company and their "X" configured engines, Briggs Body Corporation built the "Test Bed" for the Lincoln Zephyr. It was called (what else) The Briggs Sedan.

This hand built one-off had a rear mounted "X-8"
engine and closely resembled a large, four door version of a Volkswagen Beetle. The car was still around in the early 70's and had been fully restored including it's X type engine (it may have been owned by Harrah's Automobile Collection then).

Special Interest Autos did an article on the car and stated that the engine was very troublesome and experienced spark plug fowling and lower-cylinder loading. It also stated that most likely the lower spark plugs were most likely prone to fowling due to moisture.

Although the Briggs prototype didn't see production as such, Briggs Body Corp. did get the contract to produce all of the Lincoln Zephyr bodies for Ford's Lincoln Div.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 08:44 pm:

You will find a very good account of the X-8 Vehicle in chapter 23 of the Ford R Bryan's book " FRIENDS FAMILY & FORAYS. "
It relates the story of Eugene Farkas's development of the X engine and has pictures of two blackboard drawings of the proposed car. Regards, John


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