Rear Axle Questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Rear Axle Questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 01:33 am:

I have the following rear axle and plan to use it both to learn how to tear down an axle and if it is good use it on a future project. Here are my questions:

What year is the axle and springs?

Anything I should know before I start?


Yes, the


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 01:36 am:

Here are more photos:




Yes, this axle was saved from the dump because it was a trailer:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 04:03 am:

Looks 1919-25 to me. In 1925 most T's had the new 21" split rims, so it's likely 1919-24 if all the parts came from the same car. Great project :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 04:46 am:

Matthew, I agree with Roger, 1919-1925. That wheel has the wrong rim attached though. The slot near the lug indicates that it should have a loose lug rim like our Canadian sourced cars. That rim with the fixed lug goes with a wheel without the slot in the felloe.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bede Cordes, New Zealand on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 04:51 am:

Gentlemen,

could the diffy be earlier than 1919 as there doesn't appear to be any reinforcing ridges on the backing plate ? (re: the article on page 54 of Les Henry's red book ?)

Regards,
Bede


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:00 am:

from the photo it seems like the filler hole is below the centerline, that's why I thought it was later than 1918 or so. Didn't canadian production get the reinforcing ribs later? (ok, odd to find a canadian axle in California)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bede Cordes, New Zealand on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:12 am:

Roger,

Every day is a school day. Never knew about the Canadian difference, but perhaps explains the few "ribless" axles I have. Thanks mate !

Bede


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:20 am:

Bede,

refer to the thread "any techies left on here".
I knew that there was some reason that I also had a heap of ribless axles, all should come clear in the next few days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:38 am:

Now I'm really befuddled...

Didn't we have this exact conversation not a month or so ago and pretty much came to consensus of the oil plug hole as a spotters guide?

The search function on here is life skills deprived or impaired or something, or I'm life skills deprived, but I never get it to do what I want, when I want. :-( Takes me off on lots of interesting sidebars though...things I forgot from long long ago posting and posters who have come and gone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:46 am:

George, here's the april discussion: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/279472.html?1333412510
And here's another on the ribless canadian axles: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/121088.html?1263554243


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 06:59 am:

Fellows, I can't see from the photos whether the hole to accept the pinion bearing is machined to accept the closed spool. If it is, then Bruce's book dates it as pre 1920. If it is not machined in this way, I have learned something today, a ribless backing plate diff of 1920 or later.

Matthew, could you remove the blanking plate and advise whether the hole is simply chamfered on the outside or has it a step machined in it?

Allan from down under


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 07:48 am:

Do you have Glen's axle book?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 09:54 pm:

Okay I hope these photos answer the questions. I see that the earlier photos hide some important details.

Note black line is drawn directly from bolt. Does this mean the plug is in the center? Also note ribs...

As you can see lots of oil saved things from rusting out on the inside.


So now can I get a date? I am guessing earlier than was assumed the first time around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:05 pm:

Matthew,

I would say 19-24. That brake shoe is a period accessory; it was lined unlike the ford which was steel on steel. The reinforcing ribs are in there correct spots. Usually when a T rearend has been used for a trailer axle, almost all the parts in side are shot. The axle was overloaded many times and usually not maintained very well, if at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:45 pm:

I believe the oil plug is at the centerline. That would make it older correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 01:13 am:

With the new photos, it looks like center-line oil fill and ribs on at least one backing plate. The housings do appear to be machined for the earlier closed spool. All that would make it about 1916 to 1919. The rear spring would be after sometime in 1917. It looks like you saved some good T parts.
Congratulations.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 02:13 am:

Then the only parts apparently newer than 1917-18 would be the demountable wheel and rim - perhaps mismatched as Allan suggests. Needs respoking anyway :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 12:23 pm:

Wayne and Roger,
Are you sure the springs are that old? How is the did you come to that date?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 06:03 pm:

My 1919 Center door had taper leaf rear springs.

Center Door


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 06:20 pm:

The diff is machined for the closed tailshaft bearing spool, making it pre 1920, which ties in with the plug hole at the centreline. As far as I know, the squared of spring leaves came in in 1918, and the ribbed housing fits this time frame also.

When did the US cars have the rivetted spring shackles? Our Canadian sourced cars all seem to have had the forged L shackles once the oiler type were discontinued.

Just for interest.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 01:05 am:

The closed drive shaft spool that needs the "lipped" rear housing as pictured was typically used through 1921. The open drive shaft spool is typically a 1922-1927 item.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Wednesday, July 04, 2012 - 02:27 pm:

Okay today I took time to disassemble the housing:


Overall things looked good to me, but maybe I don't know everything I should look for. I did see little bits of iron. Not lots, but this:



The babbitt bearings look fine (don't worry I don't plan to use them:-)


I measured the axle. Mostly 1.059" to 1.062"
How much variation is okay?


The cages of the inside bearings was tight, but the outside ones were not.

Here are a couple surprises:
Bolt that holds the brake pads on was very worn with almost no head!!!


It looks like a replacement brake lever was added (note: S.F. Co):


Also is this an issue? Note how casting has very little opening in some places around gears:

and in other places:


I did not remove the sleeves because I don't have a sleeve remover yet. Did I read somewhere that it is better to make your own?

I look forward to hearing what you'll advise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 04, 2012 - 03:08 pm:

Advice:

1 Get the MTFCA axle book by Glen Chaffin; it tells almost all you need to know (see #3 below).
2 I'm pretty cheap, but I'd spend the dough for the sleeve puller; it's very handy and costs well under twenty bucks.
3 Forget about the stock pinion bearing and go with the Fun Projects version. I can elaborate if you wish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Wednesday, July 04, 2012 - 07:52 pm:

Thanks Steve,
I am planning to order the book, but I was trying to figure out what else I need to order, so I can make one order.

Matthew


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