Lights on charging

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Lights on charging
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 10:51 pm:

I rarely take the T out at night, but decided to putt up and down the back alleys and streets tonite for about an hour. What a great time. Everything was pretty quiet. It was an enjoyable ride.

Here is my question. With the lights on, and a fun projects regulator, what should the charging rate be?

With no lights on the ammeter registers a plus 2 amps for a minute or two then holds at zero. Battery is always charged. Spins the starter good.

With the lights on tonite, it registered minus 4 or so at a slow idle, and near zero at high rpm.

The discharge rate slowly increased to about minus 8 amps after 30 minutes or so at slow idle and minus 3 or so at high rpm.

The lights dimmed only a small amount at slow idle, and after shutting them off after an hour drive, the ammeter slowly returned to zero after about two minutes of charging.

Is this normal?

Thanks!!

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 11:58 pm:

Vince,

When you see a discharge and know your gen is good...that means the gen is not putting out enough to match the total need of the car and the minus means you are in fact using a part of the battery charge for the duration.

I'll leave it to another to advise setting 3rd brush as I always need help each and every time because I have some mental block on it as mentioned in another post. It is supposed to be easy...but it is a total step by step proceedure and you can't skip any if you want it right.

Your car is probably fine as is as you say the lights were a novelty experience. I probably wouldn't worry about it myself, but I'm the guy with the mental block anyway. Based on battery health...say you have a minus 4 A draw and 6V...thats a 24 watt drain on the batt even though the gen is putting out 'normally' for how set. Short of the voltage level dipping eventually to about 5.6 or 5.7 and the starter probably wanting to balk at that amount (thats what a crank is for, no real issue, but running too long that way, and it probably needs to be long...the lights will go out at about 3 volts left in the batt and just have a maroon filament glow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 12:15 am:

Vince......unless you use the lights a LOT I'd leave it alone.
It's much easier on the generator....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 12:16 am:

I always tell people the first Model T Parts they should buy are these.


The Electrical System says, "The third brush is moved to the position which will give a charging rate of ten to twelve amperes when the engine is running at about twenty miles an hour. The easiest way to make this adjustment is to turn on the headlights and then adjust the brush so that the ammeter reads zero. Setting the charging rate higher can cause the generator to overheat."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 12:41 am:

Steve:

While that is a verbatim quote - it is NOT a proper setting unless you have a Voltage Regulator on the car. Never should you set that high of a charge rate when using only a cutout. Was Ford wrong using this setting? - NO. Is it wrong now? - YES.

Here is why. If you follow Ford advice you have set the third brush to 10-12 amps. Assuming the car has a cutout that is working and you go for a 1 hour drive back in the T era. Less than 10 minutes of that drive will be spent at speeds above 20 MPH. The roads were just not that good. Stopping and slow going to avoid ruts was the way of the road. At the end of the one hour ride your average charge current for the whole trip would be on the order of 3 or 4 amps because only during the sustained high speed did you get up to 10-12 amps. Most of the time was spent at way lower speeds and way lower charging rate. Today if you go for a one hour ride, less than 10 minutes of that ride is going to be spent at speeds below 30 MPH. The average charge rate for the full hour will be more than 10 amps. If you drive this way as your normal setting of the third brush you will quickly boil away your battery and cook your generator just because of the way your T is driven on modern roads. You must lower the setting to 3 or 4 amps when using a cutout or risk ruining your battery and/or generator. Modern roads just don't support slow going any more and the cutout based electrical system suffers a bunch now more than it did during T era.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 12:46 am:

A good reason to get a fun Projects VR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 01:17 am:

There is every reason to buy John's VR......it WORKS!
I just bought my second one and will probably buy a third for the Fordor when I get that far.
Anyone need a solid state cutout?....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 08:23 am:

Ok, since i have a Regan VR, and a Coilman rebuilt gen,, and since its funtions well for my occasional needs, i am better off leaving it alone.

John if i should decide to increase the charging rate in the future is there anything special i should do to keep from harming the VR?


thanks everyone

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 08:38 am:

Vince,

You don't have a problem. The readings you describe are ideal. Don't increase the charging rate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 04:12 pm:

Thanks Royce

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 06:21 pm:

I probably agree with Royce. Unless you drive more than occasionally at night you will want to keep your generator setting on the low side. First thing to do is determine your headlight amp draw. Once your battery is fully charged after a day time run and the ammeter is reading zero at high RPM, do this - shut off the motor and turn on the lights to dim and then bright and note the ammeter readings in each position of the switch. If your dims are drawings 10 amps with engine stopped and with them then turned on and the engine running at high speed you see about 3 amps discharge then your generator is set to 7 Amps. There is more danger that you will cook your generator than your VR if you try to run too powerful of a bulb in your headlamps. The T generator is capable of 100 watts. This is about 15 amps at 7V (that is the charging voltage when the engine is running). 15 x 7 = 105 watts thus absolute max for 6V. Even if you run with a small amount of discharge when the lights are on, the typical T battery is a group 1 battery and as such should easily be 60-80 amp hour battery so unless you drive all night - park all next day - and drive all night again - you will not have a dead battery and as soon as you drive the car in the daytime again the battery will recharge. The only danger is if you have an extended drive at night and then put the car away with the battery not totally recharged and then you don't drive the T again for awhile. You always would like to put the battery to bed with a full charge. Next day is soon enough but don't put off a recharge if you are not driving the T regularly or you will shorten your battery life.


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